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High Pass Filter. How do you use it?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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8087
Posted : Jan 8, 2008 14:39
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i think the more you hipass and low pass the more you ll end up with a thin mix , filters can change the tune of your sound too, if you remove lot of freq from your hitat and snare ,you tune them one octave higher (or where it sound good with the key of your track) and you loose some meet imo .the best is to get the sound right from the source. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 8, 2008 14:55
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On 2008-01-08 02:00, Tomos wrote:
But when you have 90+ tracks (granted they don't all play at the same time) frequency overlaps build up, even if you can't hear it. Its good to remove the unnecessary bits.
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yes agree but it s about taste about production,evrything need some space so you need to cut more freq the more tracks playing at the same time ,you can end up with a thin mix. |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
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841
Posted : Jan 8, 2008 15:45
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Check out this free plugin called Rubberfilter
It has up to 384db/oct rolloff Butterworth Filters.
Does a very effective job of remove the low end completely. Though I wouldn't suggest using it as high as 384db as I'm sure it has negative effects on the rest of the sound. Though at 48db or 60db for example you get a very effective cut.
Also it's meant to be a static plugin, as in you shouldn't automate the filters. Set them and leave them.
Here is the link
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2842.html
 ~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 8, 2008 16:59
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Seamoon
Seamoon
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314
Posted : Jan 8, 2008 17:27
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does somebody know how much db/oct the waves q series are? |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
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875
Posted : Jan 8, 2008 18:24
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On 2008-01-08 17:27, Seamoon wrote:
does somebody know how much db/oct the waves q series are?
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Not entirely sure, but when you stack enough of them they get pretty damn steep |
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AvS
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
464
Posted : Jan 9, 2008 00:05
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On 2008-01-08 02:00, Tomos wrote:
But when you have 90+ tracks (granted they don't all play at the same time) frequency overlaps build up, even if you can't hear it. Its good to remove the unnecessary bits.
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I don't se why at all if you can't hear it! Isnt music all about what you hear???
And why the hell would you have 90+ tracks!
Also be aware when applying lowcut/highpass on sounds that the filter can change the sound quite abit in other frequencies than where the cut is. So i can do more harm than good. |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
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809
Posted : Jan 9, 2008 01:02
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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1055
Posted : Jan 9, 2008 01:19
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mubali
Mubali
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71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jan 9, 2008 04:51
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Quote:
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On 2008-01-09 00:05, AvS wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-01-08 02:00, Tomos wrote:
But when you have 90+ tracks (granted they don't all play at the same time) frequency overlaps build up, even if you can't hear it. Its good to remove the unnecessary bits.
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I don't se why at all if you can't hear it! Isnt music all about what you hear???
And why the hell would you have 90+ tracks!
Also be aware when applying lowcut/highpass on sounds that the filter can change the sound quite abit in other frequencies than where the cut is. So i can do more harm than good.
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To be perfectly honest, it's not really like you can't hear the sound, you're just keeping it from being in the way of other sounds too. as for 90+ tracks, very easy to do in an audio sense, especially if you're using a lot of different sounds or even similar sounds with different effects on each channel. with the quad and 8 core machines being made now, it's not impossible.
Here's something I found really interesting. A few months ago I was doing a rmx of a NIN track just for fun, and I took some time to listen to the original files and whereas there weren't very many sounds, they were quite big sounding. Almost too big to use for the remix to be honest, and a little too dirty for the track that I wanted to write with it. It made for a very frustrating attempt, but it made me realize that bigger isn't always better, it's just bigger. I prefer smaller, cleaner sounds that do what they need to do and get out of the way for some other sound to do it's thing too, kinda like driving on a nice 70mph highway.
As to the initial topic point, according to the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, just converted to another form. What do you think happens when you low cut sounds? It adds energy to the other frequencies therefore altering your sound. I dunno if that's really something I would want to do on my master bus. I prefer to eq sounds individually. Of course it can be said that if you make the sound right in the first place you won't need to eq, but even then I don't neccesarrily fully agree with that. We're playing sonic tetris here guys, and eq's can really help on individual sounds depending on the context.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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AvS
Started Topics :
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464
Posted : Jan 9, 2008 15:52
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On 2008-01-09 04:51, mubali wrote:
Here's something I found really interesting. A few months ago I was doing a rmx of a NIN track just for fun, and I took some time to listen to the original files and whereas there weren't very many sounds, they were quite big sounding. Almost too big to use for the remix to be honest, and a little too dirty for the track that I wanted to write with it. It made for a very frustrating attempt, but it made me realize that bigger isn't always better, it's just bigger. I prefer smaller, cleaner sounds that do what they need to do and get out of the way for some other sound to do it's thing too, kinda like driving on a nice 70mph highway.
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Funny because i conclude the exact "opposite" but yes it's a matter of taste, however i see a pattern. I think most really successfull bands that make goodb tracks that sounds really good consist of only the absolutly "neccecary" sounds. There a few sounds but the sounds that a track consists of are programmed/performed to perfection. Thats the whole essense for me! Keep it simple but super effective.
And to make this relevant to the topic about cutting lowend i believe that with the right mixing, arranging and especially timing of a sound you can fit in really big sounds and lowcutting these would be unnecessary and unhealthy for the mix.
Quote:
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On 2008-01-09 04:51, mubali wrote:
As to the initial topic point, according to the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, just converted to another form. What do you think happens when you low cut sounds? It adds energy to the other frequencies therefore altering your sound. |
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This makes no sense. If i lowcut a sound energy dissapears from this sound and is not transfered. The reason why the sound changes in other frequencies is a different matter.
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On 2008-01-09 04:51, mubali wrote:
I dunno if that's really something I would want to do on my master bus.
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You don't like mastering? 
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Jan 9, 2008 17:13
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if the sound energy disappears, then where does it go?
your statement really contradicts some of the primary laws of physics. Have you ever low cut something and looked at the spectrogram a/bing the sound and looking at what frequencies are changed?
Also, sound is made up of frequencies working together, (harmonics) it's very rare that you will encounter a sound that has just one frequency, therefore if you did cut something, it would affect the harmonic of the sound as well. This works as well with adding to a harmonic of a sound. check out how the waves maxx bass and rbass works. They don't actually add any more real bass, but more of the harmonics surrounding the target frequency thereby enriching your interpretation of the sound.
My theory on mastering combined with the discussions I have had with other mastering engineers has led me to feel that mastering can't fix mixing errors. I don't eq my master bus because each individual sound has been eqed. now if the overall mix itself needs a small boost or cut in a frequency, that's fine. that also is the prerogative of the individual engineer.
As to the idea of keeping it simple, sure it works in a lot of popular music. However, there's a few examples of how different approaches to that concept have worked very well for people too... Alan Parson's Project, Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix. Also another thing about the bigger and fewer is better concept is the type of sounds used. One of the things that attracted me to this type of music was the abandonment of the conventional pop standard of just a few sounds. To an extent, a lot of the psychedelic trance that has come out over the years really reminds me structually of classical music.
this does bring me to a very interesting question though, what do you do if you make a really good sound and it honestly does have too much low end, and it's harmonically clashing with the bass? Do you just not use the sound?
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 9, 2008 17:23
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I don't think 90 tracks is a huge amount.
Some of my songs have 10 tracks, some need little edits and background sounds they just add up.
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mubali wrote:
this does bring me to a very interesting question though, what do you do if you make a really good sound and it honestly does have too much low end, and it's harmonically clashing with the bass? Do you just not use the sound?
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If it doesn't fit in the song, or if you can't adjust it to fit without destroying its character then dump it. Or save it for your next song. Theres no point trying to crowbar in sounds that simply won't fit - if you're aiming for a high standard overall, you have to play by a few rules. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 9, 2008 21:14
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 9, 2008 21:22
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Quote:
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On 2008-01-09 17:13, mubali wrote:
if the sound energy disappears, then where does it go?
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Hey Greg, I think there are basic assumptions in this question which are incorrect, leading to confusion.
Imagine a sound consisting of two mixed sinewaves, say 100Hz and 10KHz. With a high-pass filter, you remove the 100Hz component. Does the 10KHz component increase in volume? No. When you add a 100Hz sine to a 10KHz sine, does the 10KHz component reduce in volume to keep the total energy constant? No.
Overall peak level can increase when filtering out low-frequency components because those components were previously cancelling out (in terms of wave interference) higher-frequency components. When the frequencies are removed the cancellation effect is removed too.
Sounds as we use them and talk about them here do not obey any of the laws of thermodynamics. When you remove frequencies from a sound, that's pretty much all that happens.
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