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Help with bass
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kylistar
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
129
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 10:54:45
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Hello again! 
So this thing has been bugging me for a while now.
In this first sample you can hear my bassline(very quickly made just to show you what I mean) with eq on at around 1,20kHz which is what I've come to believe is a good place to cut the bass to leave room for the rest of the sounds:
http://kylis.homeftp.org:18000/MyWeb/warez/show1.mp3
But thats not how I want it to sound...
I want it to sound like this one where i have eq at around 3kHz and that pretty much leaves no room at all for the rest of the sounds:
http://kylis.homeftp.org:18000/MyWeb/warez/show2.mp3
What is your advice? Is there still enough room even though I have the EQ on 3kHz or do you know another way to make that sharper sound you get on the higher frequenzies go more to the lower frequenzies?
Maybe I can still have lots of sound between 1,2kHz and 3kHz even though the bass is there?
Well, whats your opinion, how would you do it.. Any help or any thoughts are very apreciated!!
Thanks again! |
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
429
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 12:13
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hm, to some degree you DO have to pick: big bassline in the higher freqs, or big phat leads that take up lots of harmonic range? room is necessary, sadly.
BUT you can do a couple of things:
take a listen to some of your favourite tunes mate. you'll notice some artists get fantastic, big, clear sounding bass while still having plenty of room for leads.
some do this by having the bass in mono as usual, but wild fat lead work in stereo (hydraglyph, logic bomb, do this very well, for example).
some do this keeping a very tight low bass - the tightness gives the illusion of that hard-hitting clarity that comes from the high frequencies. think of solid cosmosis basslines for example - each note is very clearly separate from the others, thus making them sound super clear and pronounced. you create this by tightening the fuck up on your envelopes, shortening note lengths, and above all by checking your KBBB with a lopass filter @ 100hz or so. if your sub sounds tight, chances are your bassline will punch deep down clearly under any mix.
BUT for your situation, i recommend scooping and notching your EQ. my best results with KBBB come from cutting a narrow notch @ 100hz (for muddiness & octave note volume control), a wider notch centred anywhere between 250 and 500hz (this will DRASTICALLY change your sound, so expiriment), and another notch around 1khz (this leaves room for the mids. sometimes i'll even boost 2khz for some extra in-your-face effect. however, remember to notch out your leads/pads/fx wherever you DIDN'T notch your bass.
if you are using stereo for your leads like i said before, you can consider using some mid/side EQing (look it up if you aren't familiar) to make your leads still punch through in the centre, but leave room for the bass while STILL sounding "wide".
however - i can't stress this enough - you might STILL have to choose between in-your-face bass and that super fat lead. that's just the way it goes sometimes! fuck, i make dubstep/glitch-hop these days, them styles of bass take up nearly all of 50hz-5khz sometimes, it's depressing, so i feel your issue 
 Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room. ~Kurt Vonnegut
www.soundcloud.com/mixyott |
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kylistar
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
129
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 15:43
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Okay, 5khz...  you got room for hihats at least? 
I will deffinetely try what you're saying out!
Thanks alot for your time and advice! |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 17:27
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I don't always LowPass my bass... stop guiding yourself with number and listen. If it sounds good then its good.
Or try a shelf. |
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 17:59
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Jun 16, 2011 23:11
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-16 17:59, dj chichke wrote:
though it still not good enough .
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Take the time .. This is all about experience and a hard work .. There no special rules or secrets .
Quote:
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On 2011-06-16 17:27, aciduss wrote:
stop guiding yourself with number and listen . If it sounds good then its good .
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Maikel Svenson
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
81
Posted : Jun 17, 2011 00:52
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-16 17:27, aciduss wrote:
stop guiding yourself with number and listen. If it sounds good then its good
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+1
I agree with you , but maybe it could be better, and if you don`t now what to do to get the total sweet spot then there it long way home... I also have problems with basslines sometimes, so i understand "kylistar" problems |
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-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jun 19, 2011 10:59
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hey dude,
at this moment you dont even know why to leave room. sure theres other stuff comin in, but you dont know how it will fit and which freq. range it will be at, as long you dont think about it while programming.....
what i try to leave is that it´s not important where you cut the bass. im even surprised that you care now at this stage, it really doesnt matter. it should just leave a nice game with the kickdrum, but thats my opinion. can even be both very different, depending on your intentions.
instead try to get your bass like you want it to sound through the envelopes settings at the synth. your filter is going to open straight to the point set via its envelope, so theres no need imo to cut again with an eq, anyways might give better results depending on the synth and its filter. like aciduss mentioned, give shelf a try, i used it a lot for this when i had to or it led to better results. imo it often sound better and not that harsh like a cut/pass. anyways, depending on filter and settings.
like already mentioned it´s a good way to keep the bass tight and mono to leave room if thats your intention. BUT if its not you can always decide to give the bass more space and keep the rest more tight. theres no rule, only thing important is how it will sound at the end and how the kick/bass thingy will fit the rest of the song. this is the point why i say it´s not important how it sounds now at this very first stage, as long it sounds like you want it to sound.
i had no listen because i dont want to put in any opinion in here about how it sounds. its my opinion and wouldnt help, since only you know how it should sound. so it might not help to leave "its not clean enough..." or a " not good enough..." .
btw, the only reason why i´d go for an eq behind the plug would be for some surgical work on disturbin freqs. but thats a whole other story, one should leave at first for different reasons. exception might be you know your stuff and sonic enviroment that well, that you try to work on it.
at the end the beginning is a science on its own ^^ make it to yours and give a shit about numbers and stuff and listen carefully. math and numbers sure got a big role in music production, anyways one has to learn about it and not simply cut anywhere it seems to be logic. its only logic until another logic comes around to replace it! if you know the freq. ranges of your bassnote one could take this as guidance to set filter envelope, eq n stuff, but i have to say that i work on these settings throughout the song until it fits. later sounds always require to work on room (on the source) here and there and thus i never finish this kick/bass thingy at first. instead i have to say it´s the last stuff i freeze and finish, for many different reasons .....
xcuse the novel hope kinda helped, cheers: stephan
FUCK GENRES, LOVE MUSIC!!!!
http://soundcloud.com/mandarimedia
http://banyan-records.com |
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mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1785
Posted : Jun 19, 2011 14:44
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My bottom line, basic rule of thumb, is that, if youre not VERY SURE what you are doing with effects; EQ, shelving, and compression in particular....
DONT. Dont use it yet. Save it for later when you really know what you're doing. You not only will be more effective at using the effects, but you will save yourself a lot of time and frustration that misuse of effects can cause, save yourself a lot of trial and error, and free up that time for more productive education. Which would be, the basic process of songwriting, familiarity with your DAW and plugins, and reasonably clear vision for what you intend to accomplish.
My own bass I generally dont put any EQ or shelving filters, I do sometimes put a notch somehwere around 400-500hz, with the bandwidth MAYBE 80hz wide, just wide enough to avoid the harmonic distortion but narrow enough that its not cutting off anything important. The notch gives the kick drum's peak range the room necessary without masking. But I dont always use the notch, sometimes i do put shelving, sometimes i EQ... It took me a long time to be able to hear what is needed, or not. I use mono audio sources for the instruments, then i load stems into Reaper and convert teh bass and kick to mono-mix, and usually ill make 3 channels of each, one center, teh other 2 hard panned 100% left and right, which in my ears helps the bass sound like its coming from all directions. But thats cuz i dont use stereo basses. Stereo basses can be neat too. (I prefer to start with mono audio sources, then if i feel like it, add panning envelopes or some kind of stereo fx)
Dont rush, if you really want to be a producer, youre going to have to spend a LOT of time doing not much more than tweaking knobs in your DAW before you really develop the ear for everything. Its not something that you can be taught, its like learning a martial art; its about muscle memory (so to speak), being able to sit down in front of the DAW, visualize what you hope to create, and rather than thinking the whole time, 'ok now this, ok now that, then that other' you do what i think of as 'downloading' your idea. You can get there too, and you may take less or more time than others to get there, but if you really keep at it, you WILL get there.
Work first on getting to know the tools first, without them, we're not much better off than we were 40,000 yrs ago. Once you know how to use a hammer and nails, you dont need to think about each motion involved, you just do the job. Same idea.
Once youve gotten used to your tools, then you will see how much easier it is to actualize a coherent, clear artistic vision, your 'sound'. Then the dominos keep falling until....
But first, you have to keep going
Dont be afraid to ask the pros
Dont be discouraged if you spend a year in front of teh computer and still havent made anything good, it takes everyone a different amount of time to learn.
Just remember when the going gets rough why you started on this path; because you EFFING LOVE IT. (right?  )
HAVE FUN and remember, the artist is their own worst critic
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