| Author
|
Help to buy new equipment
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 8, 2008 17:18
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-08 16:48, subconsciousmind wrote:
I call UAD-1 and powercore obsolete not because of its soundquality, but because of the gain in processing power.
|
|
IMO that doesn't mean that they are obsolete or bad value. I'm not clued up on the prices for UAD systems today, but I'm looking at expanding my Scope system since the prices is very good now.
You can get a 6DSP scope card for €200-300 including plugins worth many times that amount...and I still have not heard a VST that can beat the quality of some Scope plugins.
Sure you can get VST's cracked, which of course makes them pretty good value, but if you actually compare the cost of DSP systems and the plugs you get with them to buying the VST's you really pay almost nothing for the additional processing power.
Many compaines does not release their best algorithms for native formats since it means they will be cracked, and comparing for example TC's or Sonic Timeworks plugs for native and DSP based systems the difference in quality is very noticiable.
If you are looking at getting a hardware synth or a DSP system Scope is the obvious choice IMO though. Neither powercore or UAD have much to offer when it comes to synthesis compared to Scope.
  (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 8, 2008 23:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-08 17:18, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-08 16:48, subconsciousmind wrote:
I call UAD-1 and powercore obsolete not because of its soundquality, but because of the gain in processing power.
|
|
Sure you can get VST's cracked, which of course makes them pretty good value, but if you actually compare the cost of DSP systems and the plugs you get with them to buying the VST's you really pay almost nothing for the additional processing power.
|
|
And thats what you get, almost no additional processing power. These solutions are old and add maybe 10% power. the same money invested in CPU gives you much more power.
UAD-1 can run only 1-4 instances of some newer plugins like neve.
On Powercore the Oxford plugins cost half in native than in powercore version. Running as many plugins as the powercore can on modern CPUs is not a lot load.
Quote:
|
Many compaines does not release their best algorithms for native formats since it means they will be cracked, and comparing for example TC's or Sonic Timeworks plugs for native and DSP based systems the difference in quality is very noticiable.
|
|
True for UAD, but not entirely for TC. Anyways, thats not the point. UAD-2 is totally modern also in additional processing power. Powercore at this point of time is not up to modern standartd. Powercore 6000 will probably be again.
Nobody is doubting the quality of the UAD plugs or DSP solutions. I couldn't live without it. but the UAD-1 definitly is far too weak to still be worth it. UAD-2 is the way to go if UAD.
Powercore is out of the race completely since too weak and oxford plugs being cheaper as natives. its a matter of taste what the rest of the plugins is concerned. But definitly wait for news from Powercore. At the moment the little power you get is not worth it.
Quote:
|
IMO that doesn't mean that they are obsolete or bad value. I'm not clued up on the prices for UAD systems today,
|
|
you should 
Quote:
|
but I'm looking at expanding my Scope system since the prices is very good now.
You can get a 6DSP scope card for €200-300 including plugins worth many times that amount...and I still have not heard a VST that can beat the quality of some Scope plugins.
|
|
Which scope plugin for instance?
Quote:
|
If you are looking at getting a hardware synth or a DSP system Scope is the obvious choice IMO though. Neither powercore or UAD have much to offer when it comes to synthesis compared to Scope.
|
|
Thats why I thought about buying scope the other day, but then I heard that the VST integration into the host was buggy, that using it as plugins was unhandy and that it has been discotinued or so.
Is that true?
The original poster has a laptop, is there a laptop solution from scope available? and mac?
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
|
|
|
nikovila
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
34
Posted : Dec 9, 2008 01:54
|
Im selling my roland mc-909 and now I have 2000 dolars
what about the tc powercore x8?
i think im going for the virus ti desktop or powercore x8 with some sonnox plugins and virus powercore
or what plugins recommend?
What about the plug ins that cames in?
they are better than those that cames in logic 8 or like the same?
|
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 9, 2008 02:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2008-12-08 23:54, subconsciousmind wrote:
And thats what you get, almost no additional processing power. These solutions are old and add maybe 10% power. the same money invested in CPU gives you much more power.
UAD-1 can run only 1-4 instances of some newer plugins like neve.
On Powercore the Oxford plugins cost half in native than in powercore version. Running as many plugins as the powercore can on modern CPUs is not a lot load.
|
|
And is the Oxford using the exact same algorithm in the native versions?
I know that back when I was dealing audio equipment a TC rep said that they use simplified algorithms for their native versions, partly because processor usage was a much bigger issue when running native (that was back in PIII days) and that they didn't want to have them floating around cracked.
The only plugs I have in native and Scope versions is Sonic Timeworks Compressor-x and 4080l and there is sure a large difference in quality, and I can only imagine that the algorithms is different even if they are supposed to be the same machines.
And sure...UAD, Powercore and Scope is almost 10 years now, but that is reflected in the S/H prices as well.
For example I just had the chance to get a fairly new 6DSP scope card with a bunch of plugins for €450...the total value of the card with those plugs is right now €3000 in the Sonic Core shop.
You can also find second hand 15DSP expansion cards for €350 now.
And even if one €350 CPU is faster than a 15DSP Scope card, my scope card have so far outlived 4 computers and it's still going strong. There is still no DSP solution on the market that can beat it for synthesis, it still works with my current setup without me having to compromise, and it will recive a major software upgrade very soon. New free and commercial plugins is being released all the time.
It's by the best studio investment I have ever done.
I would easily consider to buy another card for the current retail price, but I can instead get 4 cards S/H amazingly enough.
Quote:
|
True for UAD, but not entirely for TC.
|
|
Like I said, at least according to TC themself they used simplified versions for native.
Quote:
|
Anyways, thats not the point. UAD-2 is totally modern also in additional processing power. Powercore at this point of time is not up to modern standartd. Powercore 6000 will probably be again.
|
|
Of course...it's really a miracle that there is still any demand for them 10 years after release.
Who would buy a PIII 500Mhz today for the same price as it was back then...and how much do you get for them S/H today?
A DSP system is better to compare with something like a 10-15 year old Eventide...their processing power sure does not work out favourably against modern CPU's and if you calculated €/GFlop you will get a lousy deal as well.
Now Sonic Core should release the X-Cite and Scope 5 any day (at least that is what they keep saying).
It sure seems like a great system...equal to some 150 of the old SHARC DSP's, using PCI-E/PCI-Express so it can be used with a laptop and nice converters and preamps.
If I had €3000 to spend on gear now I would be all over it, but since I don't I'm really looking forward to set some more of the old SHARCS at bargain prices.
For $1100 you can right now easily get a Scope Pro (15DSP) and a bunch of nice extra plugins.
Quote:
|
Nobody is doubting the quality of the UAD plugs or DSP solutions. I couldn't live without it. but the UAD-1 definitly is far too weak to still be worth it. UAD-2 is the way to go if UAD.
|
|
I looked now and first ad I found for a UAD Xpander is €350 with the 15 included plugins and NEVE 33609,1176 LN, LA2A and PLATE 140.
So not counting the 15 included that is $550 worth of plugins. Not knowing the plugins and how many you can run on the card I cannot say, but it does seem like a decent deal to me since most UAD users seem to think the quality surpasses most VST's.
And the Scope cards is sure extremely good value today.
You can pick up a 6DSP system with MIII, Flexor and a few Zarg synths for €450.
That gives you a high quality modular system with something like 400 different modules and some great sounding synths that is just not matched from what's available as native.
A few offerings lately like Massive and Omnishpere sounds very good, but do suck a lot of CPU and do sound more digital than many Scope synths. You might only be able to use a few synths or modular patches at the same time if they are complex, but if they sound better/different compared to what is available as native I think it's worth it.
Quote:
|
Which scope plugin for instance?
|
|
There are so many and even the core dsp atoms sounds very good .
But Flexor III is not only cool because it's nice with some 300 different modules, but the fact is that most of the time I use it for really simple stuff as well since the quality is just unbeatable.
Check out John Bowens new Solaris as well. For example can you think of any VST that will give you sample-accurate audio-rate modulation? And all his old Zarg synths is just outstanding as well.
I do love a few VST's, but for a few types of sounds they will not be close...for example basses and really high frequency stuff.
I have really tried to find good VST's for basses and instruments that can make long, rich and clear sweeps up to 20k, but that kind of sounds never get the same clarity and density as on Scope.
Quote:
|
Thats why I thought about buying scope the other day, but then I heard that the VST integration into the host was buggy, that using it as plugins was unhandy and that it has been discontinued or so.
Is that true?
|
|
I never tried it but I heard so as well.
Using the XTC mode as it's called seems like a big waste of the systems capabilities anyway.
Something that I find very useful about having a Scope card is that it's really easy to do stuff like patching signals around to use for modulation, but with XTC that doesn't work...nor does the modular I think.
Also when I try to record the bass and kick (which I always do in Scope).and mix it native the results is not so clear and separated as if I mix it in Scope...even when I use 32 bit float in ASIO and as wav format...so that would also be a big drawback with XTC for me.
Quote:
|
The original poster has a laptop, is there a laptop solution from scope available? and mac?
|
|
Oh, missed that part 
Scope never got any OSX drivers since Creamware busted, but they will have very soon when Scope Fusion 5 is released.
For a laptop one can get PCMCIA/PCI-Express to PCI adapters...but not all will handle a scope.
I used to use a Magma expansion box and the PCMCIA version can be picked up very cheap today, and the more recent PCI-Express version needed for the macbook costs $750.
So it would be possible to get one S/H 6DSP card to use with a mac book if you use bootcamp or wait for Scope 5.
I would without hesitation recommend it over a Virus despite the fact that using over half the budget for an adapter might seem crazy.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
|
