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Help me understand something...
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aciduss
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Posted : Oct 4, 2010 23:57:58
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I'm struggling a little to understand this.
In a 4/4 signature:
You divide a bar into 4 measures and:
- Whole note = 1 bar (4/4)
- Half note = 1/2 bar
- Quarter note = 1/4 bar
And so on... right?
But in a 3/4 signature...
I don't get the following issue: If a whole note equals the whole bar then in 3/4 the bar is divided in 3 measures not 4, right?
Then, why the heck is a black note considered still a quarter note when in fact it represents a third of a bar?
I'm thinking the subdivision of notes is not related to the actual beat division on a bar, which makes this a little confusing for me.
I'm trying to learn compound and additive rhythms but i just cant understand this basic concept and this i'm unable to move forward in my rhythm education.
Well, in advance thanks. |
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Maine Coon
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 02:45
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A "whole" note is 4/4, regardless of your track's time signature. It's just a convention. The same goes for a "half" - it's always 2/4.
Maybe whoever coined the name "whole note" was a big fan of the 4/4 signature... |
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aciduss
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 04:12
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Oh I see...
Thanks a lot, man. |
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daark
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 06:56
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 02:45, Maine Coon wrote:
A "whole" note is 4/4, regardless of your track's time signature. It's just a convention. The same goes for a "half" - it's always 2/4.
Maybe whoever coined the name "whole note" was a big fan of the 4/4 signature...
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i believe you are mistaken.
in 4/4 you have 4 quarters(beats or black notes with no tail) in 3/4 is what it sais 3 quarters means a whole tone would be 3 quarters counting to 3 , 3 quarters or one half and quarter and so on.
waltz is a music based on this signature check out strauss to see how it sounds. same with 7/4 and 11/4.
check this site --> http://www.musictheory.net/
 http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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aciduss
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 07:06
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Then it would be 3/3, hehe... those ain't really quarters those are thirds but i understand the black note means a quarter from the whole note, not the bar.
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daark
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 07:24
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rootsoak
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 07:40
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great link mr. dark! |
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Shiranui
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 08:21
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 06:56, daark wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 02:45, Maine Coon wrote:
A "whole" note is 4/4, regardless of your track's time signature. It's just a convention. The same goes for a "half" - it's always 2/4.
Maybe whoever coined the name "whole note" was a big fan of the 4/4 signature...
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i believe you are mistaken.
in 4/4 you have 4 quarters(beats or black notes with no tail) in 3/4 is what it sais 3 quarters means a whole tone would be 3 quarters counting to 3 , 3 quarters or one half and quarter and so on.
waltz is a music based on this signature check out strauss to see how it sounds. same with 7/4 and 11/4.
check this site --> http://www.musictheory.net/
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A "whole tone" is a seperate concept from a "whole note" |
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ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 09:21
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 02:45, Maine Coon wrote:
A "whole" note is 4/4, regardless of your track's time signature. It's just a convention. The same goes for a "half" - it's always 2/4.
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True, afaik! 
http://soundcloud.com/alphadelphi |
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TimeTraveller
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 10:27
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aciduss
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 14:49
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I had already found that site daark... but thanks 
Quote:
| How can 3 quarter notes add up to a whole measure? You have to remember that all of our rhythmic terminology is based on 4/4 time since it is the most common. You’ll just have to accept the fact that music has some weird conventions just as any language. Think of all the illogical ways similarly spelled English words are pronounced. |
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So it is illogical after all...
Thanks again. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 15:14
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 06:56, daark wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-10-05 02:45, Maine Coon wrote:
A "whole" note is 4/4, regardless of your track's time signature. It's just a convention. The same goes for a "half" - it's always 2/4.
Maybe whoever coined the name "whole note" was a big fan of the 4/4 signature...
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i believe you are mistaken.
in 4/4 you have 4 quarters(beats or black notes with no tail) in 3/4 is what it sais 3 quarters means a whole tone would be 3 quarters counting to 3 , 3 quarters or one half and quarter and so on.
waltz is a music based on this signature check out strauss to see how it sounds. same with 7/4 and 11/4.
check this site --> http://www.musictheory.net/
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I am familiar with Strauss’ 3/4 and with Brubeck’s 5/4 and with Rimsky-Korsakov’s 11/4
The whole note is still 4/4. At least, this is true in the staff notation. You can draw a brick spanning the whole bar in your piano roll and call it a whole note, but that’s not what the pre-Cubase convention is.
You cannot really write a whole note in a 3/4 bar. It won’t be a whole. It will be a 3/4 note (which looks like a half with a dot next to it). And if you want to fill a 5/4 bar, you’d have to draw a whole note, a quarter note of the same pitch and a legato link between them.
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daark
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 18:36
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Maine Coon
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Posted : Oct 5, 2010 22:09
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^
I don’t have to prove it to you – you already did it for me. 
Your first reference ( http://www.musictheory.net/ ):
“Four quarter notes occupy the same amount of time as one whole note. Two quarter notes equal the duration of a half note.”
Your second reference ( http://www.studybass.com/lessons/reading-music/time-signatures ):
“This is where time signatures start to seem illogical and students often get confused. How can 3 quarter notes add up to a whole measure? You have to remember that all of our rhythmic terminology is based on 4/4 time since it is the most common. You’ll just have to accept the fact that music has some weird conventions just as any language.”
Translation: “whole note” does not have to be of the same duration as “whole measure”; it’s 4/4 by convention, suck it up.
Once again, I am not the one who came up with those links.
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daark
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Posted : Oct 6, 2010 00:08
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