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hello guys doubt bout scales...
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 21:46:03
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hello guys...im wonderin one thing....
i like all tipe of psytrance but my favourite are night time oriented like kindzadza , electrypnose, procs etc...
wel in procs its clear that he works with scale.. ( tho i have no ideia which scales lol )
but what bout in those tracks from electrypnose and kindzadza ? it sounds like they arent usin scales.... but workin in the adjustments of the scratch sounds.....
so that s my doubt....
are those tracks done based in a scale or are they really by ears?
 
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 21:53
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well...
even if you don't consciously use a scale you are probably using one anyways...unless you're making atonal noise.
Are you asking in order to replicate some of their sound?
You say that its 'clear' that procs works in scale - are you saying this because you hear melodic content that sounds nice???
IMO, if you're a producer you should learn scales. Knowing stuff about music is good - even if you don't use what you know about scales just the fact that you have that knowledge will effect how you work.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 21:57
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okay okay lemme correct my question
do they create the sounds based on a scale?.... or they create those sounds by ear....
yea obviously after the track s done it ll be always scale..but my doubt is if those tracks that are really noisy has one scale bein worked out by purpose or if the final scale s a result of a random work....
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 21:59
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 22:01
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my doubt comes coz i find it very hard to do scales when workin with those SCRATCH sounds...
coz when u start to do those scratch sounds in the synth u loose the KEY...
i mean..lets say i open the synth SURGE and start to twink some FM sounds.... when the second oscilator start to mod the first oscilator it ll loose the key note...
so from that time on i d need to work by ear .....
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 22:15
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unfortunately I can't view what I assume are youtube links because they're blocked at work.
FM synthesis will make your synth atonal or out of key unless you use good intervals/ratios, like 2:1 3:1 etc. I'm not super good at Surge so I don't know how to advise you on that one.
I think the answer you're looking for is yes - you need to work by ear when you get out of the realm of traditional melodic content and move into experimental sound design. Wish I could be more helpful, maybe someone more knowledgeable will pop in here and set us straight 
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 22:33
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Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 22:15, willsanquil wrote:
FM synthesis will make your synth atonal or out of key unless you use good intervals/ratios, like 2:1 3:1 etc. I'm not super good at Surge so I don't know how to advise you on that one.
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ye this s true..but then u get limited in the variety of sounds u ll get out of it...
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maybe someone more knowledgeable will pop in here and set us straight
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+ 1
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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jekvan
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 22:48
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I'm not sure what you asking,but if you make FM sound which is complex (multiply modulators),and you got counted possibilties to play them across piano bord andthey sound cohesive,you can clean em up to basic harmonies of your choice (for example,with plugin called Edison),and resample it back.
It will sound much less complex,but you would be able to make melody out of it,and the sounds will stay harmonic (fundamental frequencies in the sound will be harmonic).
Is that what you asked? |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:14
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jekvan
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:19
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Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 23:14, Vermeee wrote:
edison is a sampler? so what u are sayin is to put the nice sounds frmo a FM in the sampler?
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Record into Edison (it's not sampler,it's wave recorder and editor),reduce harmonic content (there is an option in Edison to change frequencies spectrum of recording),and put it into sampler.Again,if thats what you asked. |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:21
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no no it wasnt what i asked but thanks for the tip...
my doubt is more personal taste than tecnic.....
i wonder if those "noisy" artists work upon an specific scale...or if its by ears.... due the fact that they work with more experimental sounds as will said...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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jekvan
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:28
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Then,if you ask about FM sounds,it has to do with the building of the FM sounds itself,and not scale.
FM sounds have complex harmonies (specialy if you have more then one modulators),and if you ain't keeping ratio score between each modulator,things can get messy real fast.Sound which sounds good on one note,can sound like shit on other,till you hit some note,in which all modulating wave are multiplications of carrier wave frequency,and then it sounds ok again.
So in a sence,there is scale issue,just absolutely not the one mentioned in classical music,but a scale in which you synthesizer releases harmonic sound out of the FM mess you've done . |
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Vermeee
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:37
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ow well keep in mind that is not only FM to make noisy sounds...
i use FM exemple coz its the one im exploring atm...
it would be nice if more people could advice other tipes of tecnic to get those more noisy sounds beside FM....
sometimes i try to explore stuffs in the WHITE NOISES... but couldnt do something interestin yet with noises...
but yes..when workin with FM .... some of the notes on the keyboard will be totaly fucked up.... but more than that..if u are out of the RATIO... even hitin a note that s soundin hypercool... it ll be out of the note this button was supposed to be....
so no more scales ;/
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 23:55
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gah!
you're thinking too much into this.
when using scratch noises/white noise/etc, no, scales don't matter too much... but why not use the root note of your key anyways? your bassline is probably using this note, so when you key in on the piano roll to do a stab or squelch, use that root note. or the 5th of the root note. or whatever - but do it with intent and purpose... i promise you that if you ignore scales completely, even when using heavy fm-modulated sounds, it will sound out of key and shitty most of the time. i'm not saying don't break the rules, but follow them until you know exactly why you are breaking them.
peace
p.s. as a rule of thumb, if you can hear a clear tonal difference between a C and a D on your keyboard, you should probably stick in scale. if you can't, then you are either tone deaf or using white noise/atonal sounds, and THEN don't worry about being in key.
Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room. ~Kurt Vonnegut
www.soundcloud.com/mixyott |
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willsanquil
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Posted : Mar 24, 2011 00:11
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Yeah, I agree that you're overthinking. I remember when I first got into production I was obsessed with keeping things in scale. It's useful to a point where you're learning, but if you stick to it too rigidly then it becomes a hindrance to creativity more than a help.
If you're using FM sounds, maybe you should just stick to one root note like loki said and work on the rhythm of the pattern and make adjustments to its timbre with FM modulation, modulator/carrier waveforms etc. Many really sick leads are just one note with a crapton of modulation on them to change their character.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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