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headroom Odb?
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fluct
Started Topics :
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1
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 06:42
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When using subtractive EQ and playing levels off each other while mixing my levels can go far below the 0db, and although In know its good to leave some headroom, how much is too much.
Can loudness be fixed during mastering satisfactrily or not.
Basically, is it important to fill the loudness box to the top or can you adjust this later so that your current peak becomes the new top, hmm, if you know what I mean, I sort of do, ha ha
any help appreciated |
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Pavel
Troll
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313
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8649
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 09:29
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Yea, usually the mastering engineer will raise the bar up to the current standards. You'll just have to make sure it sounds well together and no clipping occures.
But not too low of course. Too low = less bits = less quality.
 Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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zebra-n
Zebra-N
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10
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95
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 10:49
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hello fellow tech nerds...  what i usually do is getting the kick channel on 0dB in SX, then i mix the rest accordingly, must say it works pretty well...
zebra out |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 13:10
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Mmh, isn't kick at 0db a bit to loud?
I set it mostly at -3db and when i play it together with some fx for sometimes bass notes are playing with kick notes it will go higher. So i get with -3db or less some space for it if some frequencies are added to the bass. But if it works for u then it works u 
Signature |
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fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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982
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 21:38
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i'm with zebra on this one... works like a charm for me too... And the kick is never too loud... on the contrary... I always have to bring down the bass compared to the kick or it gets all conquering, and the other elements need to be cut even shorter in my experience... Especially hihats don't need a lot of power to become overpowering... |
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mubali
Mubali
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71
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2219
Posted : Feb 25, 2005 22:48
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That's so interesting... I mix all my stuff a pretty low volumes, My kick usually sits at -7.5 and everything else lower than that... I might have to try that out...
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Hayez
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393
Posted : Feb 26, 2005 00:35
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I'll try to generalize the process. Yes, your mix should be as loud as you can without clipping. I alaways leave headroom of -0.3 db just to make sure. In this kind of music we're talking about it's best to take the kick and the bass, balance between them and bring the volume up to 0 db. Continue to add all the other stuff while making sure that the clip light doesn't go on. Don't add any master inserts to make it louder, leave it to the mastering engineer.
"a new art came into my mind which only you can create, the Art of Noises, the logical consequence of your marvelous innovations." Russolo, 1913 |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Feb 26, 2005 01:55
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Jupiter
Started Topics :
1
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50
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 09:51
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-25 09:29, Pavel wrote:
Yea, usually the mastering engineer will raise the bar up to the current standards. You'll just have to make sure it sounds well together and no clipping occures.
But not too low of course. Too low = less bits = less quality.
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Hi Pavel,sorry but i have to correct you in that case.The bit depth has nothing to do with the Volume in the Channel.The bit depht effects to the dynamic range of the Audiosignal which is always the same even if the fader is at -50db or even below.
Conclusion:Soundwise it doesn't matter if your Bassdrum is at 0db or -20,it's more of a question what's the most comfotable range to mix.
For me it's -12db for the kick,so i definetely don't have any peaks at the master out even with alot of tracks and the fader is in an area where it's very comfortable to mix.If you go to far below, mixing becomes difficult since only little fader movements will change the volume extemly.(expon.curve)
Best Regards
Fred
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
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355
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 13:27
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at the outset, set the kick and bass to roughly -5dB and then adjust to taste from there.
at -12db you lose 1bit of resolution in a 16 bit recording. nothing huge to worry about.
i tend to use limiters on my master bus as a gauge during mixing, and then disable them for export. that way I can work to peak values of +3 to+6.
then just pull the master bus down a tad when exporting, to prevent clipping. sorted. |
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billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
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560
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 13:33
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0db its too loud for the kick & bass, youre not leaving enough space for parts thats louder than that. -3db to -6db its a good place to put the kick & bass. if you mixed your track to low , you can add level at the master channel, anyhow mixing with limiter its a bad idea.
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Jupiter
Started Topics :
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50
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 13:41
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-27 13:27, br0d wrote:
at the outset, set the kick and bass to roughly -5dB and then adjust to taste from there.
at -12db you lose 1bit of resolution in a 16 bit recording. nothing huge to worry about.
i tend to use limiters on my master bus as a gauge during mixing, and then disable them for export. that way I can work to peak values of +3 to+6.
then just pull the master bus down a tad when exporting, to prevent clipping. sorted.
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Again,you don't loose a bit at all.The bitdepht has nothing to do with the Volume in the mixer,it has to do with the Dynamic Range of the Audiosignal and that range will always be the same,no matter how loud you play that signal.Get it?
Nice greetings
Fred |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
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1560
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 14:07
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Very varying opinions here.
I agree with billy ambulance, to mix with the kick on 0Db seems like a very strange practice.
I normally settle for around -6Db.
And I definatly don't mix with a limiter, and although brOd said that he remove the limiter before mixdown I cannot see the point to be honest.
Pulling down the master out will not reduce the clipping it will just make a lower level clipped signal.
At least that how it looks when you look at a mix made in logic done that way.
Normally in digital audio -12Db is considered to be eqvalivent to 0Db in analoge to give ample headroom.
Since electronic music is easier to control the levels in is common that people use a bit smaller headroom.
But this is the first time I hear about using NO headroom.
If you are working in 24 bit a bit low level is not really much to worry about.
But like brOd said you do loose bitdepth if you have too low levels.
And even if the end result will be a 16 bit file, if your master is so low it ends up loosing the top four bits for example it will make a difference. Although not much to worry about, the bit resolution to work with when doing the mastering processing will be reduced.
Since it's really easy to set the levels perfectly in Logic I tend to make the mix as loud as I can without overs.
Go in to the mixer and press Ctrl-A, shift click the master outs to deselect, then bring down/up the levels according to how much over/under the main outs show that you had.
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Triplex
Triplex
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Posted : Feb 27, 2005 15:22
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br0d : 6db doubles and -6db 'halfs' the amplitude. so mixing at -6db you loose 1bit and mixing at -12db you loose 2 bits (in 16bit audio). so 16bits * 6db = 96db headroom.
regarding mixing, I mix with compressors and (sometimes) limiters in individual channels, but not in the master section. in the final export though I will put a limiter with -0.1db output and a threshold from -0.1db to -2db depending on how loud my original mix is and what I actualy want to achieve. sometimes before that I will use an EQ to 'correct' the overall frequency response of the whole mix.
http://triplex.trance.net |
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Jupiter
Started Topics :
1
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50
Posted : Feb 27, 2005 19:50
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-27 15:22, Triplex wrote:
br0d : 6db doubles and -6db 'halfs' the amplitude. so mixing at -6db you loose 1bit and mixing at -12db you loose 2 bits (in 16bit audio). so 16bits * 6db = 96db headroom.
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Since all the host's like logic,nuendo,samplitude or whatever work internally with 32bit 'FLOAT'you don't loose anything,cause it floats and is not fixed. |
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