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hATS' sNARES aND pERCUSSION
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dma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
93
Posted : Apr 24, 2005 03:25
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does anyone have any advice for getting a smooth sound like the established artis have....
i have been producing for years and i have nearly all other aspects of my tracks really nice ,i just cant seem to get a full sound rythem section(exluding the kik)...
i have tried everything but it always turn's out tiny with that lack of push and fullness!!
i run all my drums from linplug rmiv with very high grade sample's they all multi chanelled in logic7 with limeters'eq reverb and compression where neede'd and the i send them all to a bus where ill put more compression or limiting again....
it seem's nomater what hats or snares i use it doesnt sound good,i mean i can even a/b with released tracks that are using say the same hat or whatever and it sounds a world apart....very frustrating
im shure someone out there nows what im talking about,please give me a word of advice and all the other people that are probably experiancing similar prob's
maybe bizzare or proto or one of the local visiting pro's on izratrance...
ps i also use izotope and t racks on my master
cheers!!!! |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Apr 24, 2005 05:54
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the percursion get lots of dynamic and cleaness if u work them well in the sampler with the envelope part , then a good EQ and compression on it its enough , the EQ is something hard to get at the first times:) but after long hours u start getting the point 
ekek
 "HIGH PULSE" AKA FUSION OF DARKPSY PROJECTS
http://www.myspace.com/highpulsemusic
http://www.beatbiz.net/artists/High-Pulse <- musiC FOR SELL. |
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Psylopath
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
87
Posted : Apr 24, 2005 19:01
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 03:41
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Im gonna try to be quick,
"it seem's nomater what hats or snares i use it doesnt sound good,i mean i can even a/b with released tracks that are using say the same hat or whatever and it sounds a world apart....very frustrating"
-Firstly what do you mean by "Dosent sound good"?
and which aspects are you considering when you a/b them?
there are lots of good tricks for percussion,
tell us more what you do to them, more exactly where the problem lies.
something concrete.
ill give some tips/good to think about
singel hit/note velocity,
program the rhythm lines with everything in mind, where do you want your groove to be. just like with all the other instruments.
which rhythm element is most upfront and which is in-between and which is supporting, I.e where does everything has its place.
when you mix them are there any elements thats fighting for same space?
are you spending enough time with the:
pitch (to match tonaly or just separate)
attack (smooth or hard)
decay(long or short)
parameters to shape them?
have you tried A gate(on loops or a groupchannel)
consider the lenght of the percussion instrument that you want to achive and also its frequency spectrum.
if you want upfront percussion with just some air, dont overdo the reverb, think about just using early refelctions of the reverb.
depending on charater of the sound you want, think about narrowing its frequency content down to the most important parts of it.
for a smoother hihat/ohat sound try a deeser, if it takes away too much presence try boosting a bit in the area it loses presence.
i could go on, but right now i would like to hear more from you.
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thockin
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
114
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 05:23
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http://www.hockin.org/~thockin/tmp/hats.wav
There's a simple hat loop. It sounds ok on it's own, but it's too thin and anemic when in a mix. Also, it doesn't have the rich sounding clang that so many "pro" albums have.
How can this loop be saved? |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 05:46
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-24 05:54, DarkPsy wrote:
the percursion get lots of dynamic and cleaness if u work them well in the sampler with the envelope part , then a good EQ and
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I agree here, using envelopes on almost all drums is necessary, even kicks.
Tim, in that sample you uploaded it sounded like the hi hats were all without envelopes - the evelope is that automatic volume "fade out" that's @ the bottom right corner in Battery. Turn on the Volume Envelope and fuss with the knobs so it fades out the end of your hi hats, it makes them all tighter so you can do more EQs and turn things up more.
How much envelope you want to put on is a matter of taste, some sounds should be left wide open, while some sound better cranked down to taps. With psytrance, there's so many 16th notes being cranked out at a swift 140-150 BPM, a lot of stuff needs to be enveloped down.
Kicks often need the tails enveloped down so they won't interfere with your basslines. See the Kick & Bassline threads. http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
825
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 22:52
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Quote:
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With psytrance, there's so many 16th notes being cranked out at a swift 140-150 BPM, a lot of stuff needs to be enveloped down.
Kicks often need the tails enveloped down so they won't interfere with your basslines. See the Kick & Bassline threads.
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I'll go out on a limb and say that ALL kicks need enveloped when speaking of psytrance. I have never made a bassline-kick work unless a nice envelope was placed on the tail. its just necesarry.
The IsraTrance MySpace Group:
http://groups.myspace.com/isratrance
DJ Trypta Sets:
http://waxdj.com/djs/4354/ |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 23:24
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dma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
93
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 01:58
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thank you all for youre idea's,i will definatly spend some time going over these techniques....
i thaught that it might be easier for you guys to hear what im doing to maybe get a better idea of my sound
new error scientist,i appreciate youre interest,please have a listen and tell me youre opinion
http://www.soundclick.us/fastkG/09/02/freemp3/atreyue+1stvoice.mp3
its only 2.6 mb or something.....cheers |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 02:00
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-25 05:23, thockin wrote:
http://www.hockin.org/~thockin/tmp/hats.wav
There's a simple hat loop. It sounds ok on it's own, but it's too thin and anemic when in a mix. Also, it doesn't have the rich sounding clang that so many "pro" albums have.
How can this loop be saved?
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Hey Tim. The others are right. The hits need to be shorter. These sound too slow and lazy because they are too long andf lose.
Do you have any examples of tracks with hihats that you like?
UnderTow |
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dma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
93
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 02:39
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astrix..sex style and tweaky
protoculture..new directions
bizzare contact..frequencies(beat hackers rmx)
delirius..interface
i like particuly the sound of there drums,not just the groove |
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thockin
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
114
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 04:00
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Track 2 or 3 off the Injection album (can't recall the name). Almost anything off CPU's first album. Dark Soho "D.M.I.S.H.". Just to name a few. They are clangy, rich, present but not ear-splitting, funky and DRIVING. |
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Amygdala
Amygdala
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
175
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 13:52
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 26, 2005 15:18
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-26 01:58, dma wrote:
thank you all for youre idea's,i will definatly spend some time going over these techniques....
i thaught that it might be easier for you guys to hear what im doing to maybe get a better idea of my sound
new error scientist,i appreciate youre interest,please have a listen and tell me youre opinion
http://www.soundclick.us/fastkG/09/02/freemp3/atreyue+1stvoice.mp3
its only 2.6 mb or something.....cheers
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dma, I just listened to this and first up, the music sounds nice. Now, about the mix, you use too much compression. Just listen to what happens at the 1 minute mark when you have that crash/snare hit. The bassline and kick get pushed down in volume. Actually your whole mix keeps pumping in and out in volume when different sounds come in and out.
Here is your homework assignment for today:  Open that project. Turn off ALL compressors/limiters. Spend as much time as you need to make the mix sound as good as possible just by changing the levels and using the EQ carefully to cut out any clashing frequencies. (Be gentle with the EQ).
Don't forget you have an important tool in your sonic arsenal: The volume fader! If something sounds too loud in just a small portion of the track, pull the volume down for that bit. (With automation).
Another thing, turn the reverb down quite a bit. By the time the track has been mastered, with the added compression etc, the reverb will be back up and much more apparant.
Once you have done your mix this way, and every thing sounds as good as you can make it sound, then maybe you can add some compression somewhere as a creative effect to make some sound pump or not. But I really advise you to first try mixing without them. You will learn how to get the MIX and EQ right this way.
One more thing, don't try and make it sound loud. Leave that to the mastering engineer. Just try and make it sound RIGHT. If you want more volume, turn up your speakers.
Oh and please post a sample of how it sounds when you are done. When your mix is done, I can master it for you if you want.
UnderTow |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Apr 27, 2005 02:38
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I Think UnderTow summed it up very well!
i was just going in the same line,
"Don't forget you have an important tool in your sonic arsenal: The volume fader!"
to be honest i have something to learn from what UnderTow said aswell.
it doesnt always help you knowing some techniques, you got to practise them aswell.
Thanks UnderTow for some nice advice which i think everybody can use!
ill be back with some ideas on percussion programming later.
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