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Harmonies and melodies
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
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1516
Posted : Dec 5, 2006 17:57
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The other day i was browsing this forum and came up with a thread that was talking about melodies and harmonies that i was really interested in (i used the search and couldn't find it), i don't really know music and something that i could guide myself would be great , if it had screeshoots and examples would be even greater
thanx in advance |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
932
Posted : Dec 5, 2006 18:38
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
Posts :
1516
Posted : Dec 5, 2006 18:48
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 that's what i've been doing for the last 3 years , but then the other day got a midi file from a I.M. song and the way they inserted the notes kinda puzzled me , cos i never though of it that way , and i think i'm missing some basic theory , for example i'm listening to Altom's "Appetizer" and that lead he's using has some strange final note that i'm trying to find myself and can't , i imagine due to my lack uf understanding . |
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Brain Hacked
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
442
Posted : Dec 5, 2006 19:05
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Study some musical theory, im doing it and you will be amazed on how it helps, at the end of the day is music what we are trying to do so the logic is to study some music. Good luck |
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
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1516
Posted : Dec 5, 2006 19:40
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thanx Brain Hacked
Been browsing the mother of all music theory's thread but i needed something a bit more simple to start with , maybe a piano roll like in cubase and examples but i imagine that's hard to find |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
932
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 00:44
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Brain Hacked
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
442
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 01:13
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I want to kik myself everyday thujon i had the chance to study in a major music school when i was 15, i decided not. now i want to kik myself for not doing it. But things happen for a reason (in my case i guess to prove life i m a moron) |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 01:58
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just play it 
learn chords to start with, then go from there... play the keyboard more than you programm music..
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
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981
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 02:48
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The pentatonic scale (black keyboard notes) was (I think) one of the first scales, then it was divided into the 12 semitones we use now (in the western world anyway) and over time further categorised into major and minor chords and scales etc.
But in the last 200 odd years composers have taken chords and augmented, diminished, 7th'd, allowed dissonances.. in fact, if you can think of it - it's probably been named.
The effect of which is that while staying in key is easy, you have so much musical freedom that you might as well go by ear, because chances are someone has named what you're doing and made it techincally valid!
If you want to go by ear, fine. But the upshot of learning some music theory is to understand what the sounds are doing emotionally. It can really can help you do creative things like create instabilities in chords, creating tensions and resolutions or knowing which key changes will work best (tonic and subtonic dominants).
It depends on how far you want to go really. Trance relies on some harmonic minimalism, complexity destroys that tribal 'drone' element which locks the brain in. I for one would like to hear buckets and buckets more interesting melodies in psy, but that's my taste. So you may disagree. |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 03:27
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Copy pasted from TA, thank Derivative
GENERAL QUESTIONS:
1) Why do I need to know about scales and chord progressions?
Because nearly everything musical is in some way based upon this part of music theory. Whether knowingly or not. Ultimately this comes down to sounds that resolve in a way that sounds pleasant or unpleasant. Thus, you may not know anything about music theory and fumble your way into writing a song that unwittingly follows a scale, which resolves pleasantly. Therefore, save yourself the hassle, and learn this stuff so you don’t have to trial and error your way through it.
2) Why not just use a chord library? They can tell me what chords to play without the hassle of learning a whole new discipline.
In the short term I can see why someone would want to do this. But if you were to admit it, this type of thing is only excusable by laziness (which is no excuse. especially if you are trying to write and perform music). Chord libraries only tell you where to put your fingers on a piano in order to play a certain chord. They do not tell you why you have to place your fingers on those keys. Why those keys, in that specific combination result in that chord. Ultimately, you will know how to play an Asus4 chord on a piano by consulting a chord book. But you wont know why it is an Asus4. What makes an Asus4 different from a standard A chord. What 'sus' and '4' refer to. And how to make another chord such a C# chord into a sus4. And you wont be able to play an Asus4 on any other instrument other than a piano because you wont know where to put your fingers. You will find that, in taking the short cut to knowledge that chord libraries offer, you will only end up more confused about chords and end up losing out in the long run.
3) Doesn’t getting bogged down in music theory just make you less creative and more reliant on rote learned formulas for success?
Only if you let it. Put it this way - is there any way you canNOT benefit from learning about scales and chords? Should you not like the idea of music theory, there is nothing stopping you from not using it although it is nice to bear in mind. But if you never learn it in the first place then you are shutting yourself off from some potentially very useful knowledge. Ultimately music theory is a set of guiding principles. You can bend (even break) the rules. But you need to know them in the first place before you can twist them around into your own style of making music. Music theory and notation just makes the process of composing music and taking down ideas very logical and manageable.
4) Why are you making me memorise scales before getting onto chords? my guitar book tells me I should learn chords first?
Resources that teach you how to play guitar will often teach you basic chords first because the greatest barrier for most people picking up and learning to play guitar is actually trying to get a note out of it before giving up with aching fingers. With some other instruments like the piano this isn’t so much of a problem - you don’t need to callous your fingertips and stretch your hands in awkward, tendon itching positions. At least, not so much when you are just starting out. When most newcomers to guitar start playing, they do not have the dexterity to play even basic chords. Thus most manuals will advise you to practice chord formations to get your hands dextrous enough before moving onto scales. Although this is the wrong way to learn, from a theory perspective. Why? Because chords are derived from scales. Not the other way around. This FAQ will break it down so its easier to understand but if you think about it and work out some of the abstract terminology and jargon that comes with music theory, its actually very simple and it makes COMPLETE sense.
5) Are there any specific chords and scales I should learn for trance? That way I have less to learn and can focus on just the style of music I want to play.
There is no specific set of chord progressions for trance. There are no specific chord progressions in any style of music really. There are certain styles of music that repeatedly plunder the same set of musical principles though. For example, faaaar too many guitar oriented bands subsist on C, D, G and A chords. They are also easy to play. And the majority of trance music (at least from what I have transcribed) use basic major scales (often from C). Or certain moded scales (Lydian, Dorian and Phrygian. usually from C or transposed). Because its easy and its all consonance. Consonance means a note resolves fully and sounds 'harmonious' - as long as you stick to the scale it is *impossible* to hit a 'bum' note. Harmonically, trance is very simple, even compared to boy band pop music (which often has some clever use of vocal harmonies. but its often done in a way which is cheesy as hell). Melodically trance rarely ever utilizes discord. Unless it’s the psy variety but even then its fairly simple stuff. Rarely hear any synthetic scales in trance (i.e. no pentatonic, no augmented scales and no diminished scales).
Most problems people have with music theory and trance stem from making it more complex than it really is.
6) My friend says I should use more diminished chords and change things up with a few sus chords and maybe an aug chord. What do you think?
I think your friend is filling your head full of shit. The name of the chord is an abbreviation for the harmonic intervals that are played in relation to the root note of that chord. Its not like pick and mix where you have to have 1 of every colour. You should not think of chord progressions in terms of the chord's name. That you 'have' to have a diminished chord in there for the sake of it. You don’t. You should think in terms of the harmonies that are being played and how they flow into and out of one another. The name of the chord is just a shorthand way in which you can tell what harmonic intervals there are in a chord.
For instance:
major scale from A is A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G# and back to A
8 notes in total spanning 1 octave where:
A = root note (also called tonic - the fundamental note from which the scale starts)
B = major 2nd
C# = major 3rd
D = perfect 4th
E = perfect 5th
F# = major 6th
G# = major 7th
A = perfect octave
if you see an A chord you know its the root in A + its major 3rd + its perfect 5th. i.e. A, C#, E
You can make any basic chord minor by flattening the major 3rd by 1 semitone. Therefore, if you see an Am you know its an A chord (A (root note) + C# (major 3rd) + E (perfect 5th) with the C# flattened by 1 semitone. therefore an Am = A, C, E.
ALL basic chords consist of the root note and 1st and 2nd order harmonies (always major 3rd and perfect 5th). 3 notes in total. You will sometimes see this referred to as a note triad.
Note: you can repeat notes in the triad in different registers and for all intents and purposes the chord will remain the same. i.e. an A, C, E + another A (octave higher) + E (octave higher) is still an A minor chord. (although technically you are adding the 5th again in another register, you could say it has an added 13th [add13]. most guitarists however play an A minor like this and its still for all intents and purposes an A minor.)
You can do this for any chord. To suspend a chord you replace the major 3rd in a basic note triad with a perfect 4th. Therefore, a suspended chord would consist of the root, perfect 4th and perfect 5th. This chord is called a sus4 (for suspended 4th) i.e. if an A chord = A, C#, E then an Asus4 would = A, D, E. when you see a sus4 you just know instantly how to change a basic chord into a suspended 4th. Similarly, when you get used to transitioning chords into a sus4 you will become accustomed to certain situations where it works and where it just doesn’t. This only comes about through practising your scales and chords and jamming (an essential part of any musical venture although its understated in this FAQ)
Once you know how chords are built you know what harmonies you are playing in relation to the root note. Everything is in relation to the root. Therefore you can build up successive harmonies by adding 6th and 7th notes, taking them away, adding notes in harmony in different registers etc to build up the texture of a sound. Once you get the basics you can move on to creating rising and falling patterns of melody and harmony that resolve in consonance or break up in dissonance. Beyond that you can twist all the guidelines in this FAQ, as some producers like Aphex Twin are wont to do, by making music and art out of noise. Ill try to cover minor, major, dominant chords as well as suspended 4ths, suspended 2nds, augmented, diminished and extended chords in the course of this FAQ.
HARMONIC INTERVALS AND SCALES:
Foreword: scales are boring, no doubt. But you should memorise them. Why? Isn’t this just like memorising chords? Well yes and no. Basic major scales are like the smallest indivisible component of the musical trance soup. When you boil everything else away – that is what’s left. Its the ingredient which you cant break down any further without things getting vague.
The following are basic 8 note major scales from all the 12 half note steps in a single octave. For technical reasons ill start with a C major scale. The reasons for which will become apparent shortly.
You will notice that there are 8 white keys in a single piano octave, each representing a whole note. There are 4 black keys indicating half notes in between whole note intervals. A scale is essentially an ascending/descending sequence of steps. A whole step does NOT equal a whole note however.
Ill explain. A piano keyboard skips a half note twice every octave - a B will go on to a C and an E will go on to an F. there is no B#/Cb and no E#/Fb. owing to this, a scale from C does NOT consist of whole steps even though it consists of only whole notes (a whole note scale [consisting of 6 whole steps] is referred to as an augmented scale).
Count the intervals:
C major scale = C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
Therefore we have: STEP (from C to C# to D), STEP (D to Eb to E), HALF STEP (E to F), STEP (F to F# to G), STEP (G to Ab to A), STEP (A to Bb to B), HALF STEP (B to C)
The essential thing to remember is that a major scale goes: STEP, STEP, HALF STEP, STEP, STEP, STEP, HALF STEP
I chose to start from C because this is easiest one to remember - its the middle note on a piano roll and there are no sharp/flat intervals to remember but it is crucial to remember, starting a scale up from a note other than C will result in the use of sharps and flats and they will be different depending on where the half steps are.
I would recommend memorising the following scales and getting used to playing them in ascending and descending order. Yes its boring as hell but the point is to get your fingers familiar with playing along these intervals on a piano. When you start improvising or playing more complex melodies you don’t want to lose momentum by stopping and having to think what note to go to next.
Similarly, you will develop a kind of muscle memory, which is hard to explain. When I play back to the old house (by the smiths) on guitar, the notes and chords that are being played change so quickly that I don’t actually remember all the chords I play. But my fingers instinctively transitition to the right frets because they are so used to playing this song. Similarly, when you type on a computer keyboard you don't really need to look down at the keys you are pressing most of the time because your fingers know where all the letters are, even though you may not be able to recite the exact order of all the lettered keys on a qwerty keyboard. Like I said, hard to explain. But keep drilling those scales and with practice you will start to play them on autopilot. Eventually, with enough practice and experience jamming, you will find the best material you end up writing is the stuff where you are totally in the zone and are playing on reflex.
Degree = the interval between the note itself from the root note. Degree, Interval and its abbreviated number (Abbr.) are essentially interchangeable. This chart lists only the major scales starting from all possible root notes. Note that minor scales, synthetic scales and moded scales have DIFFERENT step patterns but everything else with regards to the terminology of scales is the same.
Don't get lazy and just pin this chart up next to your computer. Burn it into the back of your brain like your times tables. Play them ascending and descending. At the very least, before going on to the next section, memorise the C major scale and the step intervals. After this you should go on to learn minor scales, synthetic scales and modes (which I will cover at some point) but essentially you only really need to know what is in the above chart in order to be able to make any chord. So for the time being, ill move onto Chords in root C (for the benefit of the lazy people. Har!)
DERIVING CHORDS FROM SCALES:
By this point you need to know what a C major scale is.
As mentioned previously all basic major chords consist of the root note + major 3rd + perfect 5th. Sometimes this is easier to remember as the tonic, mediant and dominant (as beginning, middle and end of a basic chord). Whichever you find easier. i find it easier to remember as root, 3rd and 5th. in either case, a C major chord = C, E, G because these are the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes from a C major scale
To make any chord minor, you flatten the major 3rd and thus get C, Eb and G. There is a reason for doing this, which I will explain briefly although it really needs a section on minor scales to itself:
A natural minor scale steps as follows: STEP, HALF STEP, STEP, STEP, HALF STEP, STEP, STEP.
Therefore, the major 3rd (III) becomes a minor 3rd (iii) because of the half step where the major 3rd normally is in a major scale. Its good to know minor scales but for this section you only really need to know that flattening the major 3rd by 1 semitone will turn any basic chord from any root note into a minor chord. Simple. Cm = C, Eb, G. i will write up a section on minor scales and slot it in around here although i will say this: harmonic and melodic minor scales arent something you see alot of in trance.
In a similar way you can alter the notes in a major triad to create interesting chords. A suspended 4th can be achieved by swapping the major 3rd for a perfect 4th as mentioned previously i.e. sharpening the major 3rd of a basic chord.
Thus a Csus4 would be C, F, G.
To diminish a basic major chord you would once again take the root, major 3rd and perfect 5th. Only this time you flatten the major 3rd by 1 semitone as well as flatten the perfect 5th by 1 semitone.
Therefore a Cdim would be a C chord (C, E, G) with both harmonic intervals flattened by a half note. i.e. C, Eb, F#
To augment a chord you do the opposite of diminishing – you sharpen both the major 3rd and perfect 5th. Therefore a Caug would be: C, F, Ab.
Remember: you can repeat notes in the triad in different registers to flesh it out – its still essentially the same chord.
Bigger Chords:
You don't need to stick to 3 note chords either. You will notice that you can add the 6th note of a C major scale (its major 6th) to the original root/major 3rd/perfect 5th. In this case you would create a C6:
Cmaj6 = C, E, G + A
You can add a 7th to a basic chord by sticking on the major 7th so that:
Cmaj7 = C, E, G + B
But you have to be really careful here – I haven’t mentioned the difference between major and dominant chords yet – the difference lies in how they resolve.
A Cmaj7 does = C, E, G, B but a C7, also known as a C dominant 7th is C, E, G, Bb.
6ths and 7ths act like extensions to the chords above. You can take any major chord and add a 6th or 7th but what note this is will be the major 6th or major 7th note in the scale from THE ROOT NOTE! Everything is always in relation to the root note so its no use sticking a B onto the end of an A chord to make an Amaj7 because B is NOT the 7th note of a scale from A (its G# - if you are confused, consult the chord chart and look up the 7th note of the scale from A).
You don't even need to use basic major chords – a Cm7 (C minor +7th) is C, Eb, G + Bb. In cases like this unless the major is specified (as in Cm/maj7) you always use the dominant 7th.
Chords So Big They Don't Fit Into 1 Octave:
Sometimes you will see chords that have added 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. To make these chords you need to count up the scale further into the next octave:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (octave), D, E, F, G, A, B, C (2nd octave)
This is essentially the same scale repeated twice, and you can do it with any scale from any root. Extend the numbering system up to 16 since you now have 16 notes to deal with.
A C7add13 (C13) would be a C dominant 7th (C, E, G, Bb) + the 13th note of the scale (which is G)
Therefore C7add13 = C, E, G, Bb, G
Which is essentially a C7 chord with the 5th in an upper register. Hopefully you will start to see that all of this theory is completely interrelated. Most people would just call this a C chord but the terms are interchangeable.
Sometimes a C13 is listed as a C dominant 7th + 9th + 13th
i.e. C, E, G, Bb, D, G
which is also technically correct. Although the bigger you make chords like this, the more bloated they sound. Try striking a C13 with all those harmonies and on some instruments (especially synths using huge saw wave type sounds) it can sound really cluttered. This is one of those grey areas where a lot of leeway is given. You can just use a C7 with an added 13 or have a C7 with an added 9 and 13 – its up to you and your ears whichever works in the arrangement you are making.
Although, you will rarely find chords this big in trance. Because of this grey area you can spread 3 note chords over 2 octaves.
i.e. you could have a C in a low register with the E and G part in a higher register. It’s still a C chord. You could extend that idea and stick a 13th in an even higher register. This way you get the root note as a much bassier, heavier presence with the melodic 3rd and 5th an octave up. And the 13th another octave up providing a high-pitched, taught harmony to string out the overall sound. Its worth experimenting with this idea to create a sense of warmth, weight and tension in sound.
CHORD PROGRESSION:
A chord progression is essentially just a sequence of chords although the term is misleading. You are more interested in the harmonies that are being played and how they transition to the next. http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 03:30
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illusions
Erebus
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
626
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 06:39
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Ooh lala. Thanks man  Just what I was looking for |
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master bud
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
144
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 10:11
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
Posts :
1516
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 12:27
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My friends this was more then what i was hoping for , thank u very much , i'm printing this ,too much information for me to digest and i'm at work right now 
I would really love to talk with u much more but unfornatly i don't have internet at home maybe next month or so and will be talking much more then i hope
The chords i think is where i'm going to start from hehe!
http://www.myspace.com/moonnomad |
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
Posts :
1516
Posted : Dec 6, 2006 12:43
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Amazing it even has a litlle software with a keyboard this is realy what i was looking for .
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