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Hard dance to psytrance ?
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 29, 2007 16:44
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i do make the tracks dj friendly , mostly since i dj them alot 
here is what i do , maybe work only for me tho...
start the track not with full melodies so less chanses to clash scales with other track in the mix, like u said more percussion loops and kick maybe also pad is very common to start the track with (8 bars or 16 then it will "fall" right on the end of the other and no must to beatmix)
make a "silent" bar before the melodies starting , its also sound great in the track and also good point to remove the previous one
anywayz for sure like kaz said listen to some "prototype" artists , astrix domestic wizzy-noise for fullon freq ace ventura and atmos for prog but remember that allready 1000 peaple copy that and u will not get far if not develope something new out of it as well
  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Oct 2, 2007 01:26
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On 2007-09-28 22:20, subconsciousmind wrote:
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On 2007-09-28 21:45, Psytracked wrote:
I believe music to be sound with form. With a defined structure. With out form and structure surely it is random noises. I have yet to hear a Psy-trance track which doesn't have form and structure.
I think its a paradox to say ignore structure and form as simply with out certain structures in place the music will cease to be Psy-trance.
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Yea, if you look at structure in the very basics you wouldn't even be allowed to use "notes".
I think you are missing the point by going into such depth. Sorry I don't know how to make it clear.
Its not just black and white.
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First of all I forgive you.
I don't think I view the subject in black and white, but there is always the chance of me being wrong. However I don't think it’s a black and white issue of right and wrong either. I just think that song structure is relative. For me a good peace of music, regardless of genre, has form and structure. Like a story, a beginning, middle and end. If these are evident in the piece then I believe the experience will be acceptable to the end listener.
The not being able to use notes bit I don't understand, maybe this is my fault. A melody is made up of notes (pitch) and it is their relationship to each other over time that gives them context. This to me is an example of form and structure.
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Andrew
Voice Of Cod / Zuloop
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
218
Posted : Oct 2, 2007 19:46
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hey, good luck with it! |
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Oct 2, 2007 20:09
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i think psy trance needs to be influenced by other genres of electronica to stay fresh! techno , electro or hard trance influences can be heard in some of the collest psy acts today... at least to my ears.
formulaic fullon is just so boring and so un-psychedelic as it can get. |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Oct 2, 2007 20:27
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-02 01:26, Psytracked wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-09-28 22:20, subconsciousmind wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-09-28 21:45, Psytracked wrote:
I believe music to be sound with form. With a defined structure. With out form and structure surely it is random noises. I have yet to hear a Psy-trance track which doesn't have form and structure.
I think its a paradox to say ignore structure and form as simply with out certain structures in place the music will cease to be Psy-trance.
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Yea, if you look at structure in the very basics you wouldn't even be allowed to use "notes".
I think you are missing the point by going into such depth. Sorry I don't know how to make it clear.
Its not just black and white.
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First of all I forgive you.
I don't think I view the subject in black and white, but there is always the chance of me being wrong. However I don't think it’s a black and white issue of right and wrong either. I just think that song structure is relative. For me a good peace of music, regardless of genre, has form and structure. Like a story, a beginning, middle and end. If these are evident in the piece then I believe the experience will be acceptable to the end listener.
The not being able to use notes bit I don't understand, maybe this is my fault. A melody is made up of notes (pitch) and it is their relationship to each other over time that gives them context. This to me is an example of form and structure.
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What I want to say is, that you are of course right, that certain structures are needed. I made the example "notes" for an example of indispensible structures.
But they are very basic an low in complexity as well as something like "beginning" "middle" "end".
But in every music common structures of all sorts (arrangements, production, use of sounds and melodies etc.) are being used which are far more complex than that. Sure some need to be used to make it recognizable as music from that genre, but in reality the structures being used and copied are far more complex than that and this leads to what we have in psytrance -> 90% of tracks in each subgenre sounding almost the same. (not just recognizable as psytrance)
No matter progressive, dark, FullOn, in every subgenre there are structures being used and copied like formulas for success and being understood. They are being copied over and over leading to an uncreative, boring majority of music. Even worse, I state the constant usage of common relatively "complex" structures (compared to "notes") leads to listeners expecting nothing else and being overstrained when somebody doesn't use the known structures AND to a narrowing of the definition "psytrance" which in the end costs creative possibilities.
In short or complicated:
The higher the complexity of KNOWN structures, which are being used in a song, the more the song sounds like another song using the same structures.
If the structure is of low complexity (like "notes" or "beginning, middle, end", "vers - refrain") the similarity to other songs using the structure becomes negligible.
The problem beginns when a high amount of artists start to use the same relatively complex structures to build songs. Which is usually viewable when a hit (in any genre) comes out and is being followed by a couple of hits sounding similar.
This is also very typical in PsyTrance.
For me for example "beginning - middle - end" or "vers - bridge - refrain" are still ok to have enough cleareance to create something new, individual. But thats a matter of my perception. A Jazzman wouldn't use "vers - bridge - refrain" etc.
I hope I could make myself clear.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Oct 2, 2007 22:21
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I hope I could make myself clear.
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Very much so and I appreciate the effort. I find myself agreeing with much of what you said. However the bit I find most difficult is where to draw the line between the level of structure needed to define the music to a genre(or sun-genre) and enough creative freedom to allow enough variety with in that genre. I think it is perhaps fair to state that Psy-Trance requires more structural definition than begging, middle and end. The beats and bass, 16ths structure and tempo range are necessary to define the music as trance.
Where should we draw the line?
Surely there is some (loose?) boundary that can not be crossed if the musician wishes their music to be associated to a specific style or genre.
I personally would love for this thread to make an attempt to explore this further. I'm not sure a common consensus would be reached but I personally would like to hear other forum members opinions. I think myself and maybe others could benefit from such a dialog.
Thanks once again for the reply. |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Oct 3, 2007 08:54
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Thank you.
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On 2007-10-02 22:21, Psytracked wrote:
Where should we draw the line?
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I personally draw it elsewhere for each song and as often as I'm capable off I try to draw it further away from where "its commonly drawn"
You are certainly right. There is already a lot of structure needed to make it "psytrance". And also there it is again very different for many people. My definition of PsyTrance is much more general than of other people I know. Who is wrong who is right?
nobody.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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somarobotics
Somarobotics
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
190
Posted : Oct 3, 2007 17:20
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On 2007-09-28 20:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
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On 2007-09-28 19:58, somarobotics wrote:
I never think about following a structure to create my trip, maybe I should start worrying about this a little in the future...
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!! DON'T
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HAHA! Well after reading this post I've checked and it seems like I DO make some sort of structure in all tracks, but not intentionally... it feels natural to have an intro and outro dj-friendly... but in the center core of all tracks it's always different, hehehe... sometimes they will "explode" right away and then go atmospherical, or the other way around...
very interesting post, I'd love to continue checkin out everyone's views on this! |
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