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Hard dance to psytrance ?
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PSYKOTIK MINDZ
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
9
Posted : Sep 27, 2007 23:35
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Hay all
Iv'e been producing NRG,hard house and hard trance for many years now but i want to start producing full on psy. My trouble is with the arrangment for the first part of the tunes. The arrangment im used to is like this:
bars 1-8 kick and percussion loop
8-16 more percussion
16-24 hats
24-32 claps and snare roll
32-40 bass drops with everything else
40- first sound comes in..
It's very dj friendly... the tunes swaps when the bass drops. Anyway..Psy seems to follow a different format. Ive been listening to a lot of tunes and they all seem not to follow any rules.Another thing is they all start with pads,drones,fx or atmospheres! but why? a dj cant beat match pads plus the clubbers dont even get to here it.Anyway can i stick to my usual arrangment or has anyone got any tips.
thanks |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Sep 27, 2007 23:47
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Sep 27, 2007 23:51
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Quote:
| not to follow any rules |
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You already said it. But if you want a classic arrangement goes sumthin
like this:
Intro (drones, pads, voice samples)
Bassline droppin
Synth evolution
Chorus
Bridge
Build up to explotion
Enhaced Chorus
Down to another bridge
Rise to build up
Final loops
Endin
Well is just the idea... most psy songs have intros cause they sound so cool when in a "liveact" but of course if your djing you'll match the first kick of the mainbeat.
There is, actually, some sort of psytrance recipe (if you listen/mix enough tracks) but is not that hard to innovate. no rules 
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 09:36
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Please don't become on more "formula" psytrance musician or musician.
I find it so lame and so unmusical.
Just do art that works, invent formulas.
PsyTrance strictly built after a formula in my opinion impossibly can be "PSYCHEDELIC" (at least not for me).. so I see no worth in following this if you are really interested in "PSY"Trance.
Its all gutfeeling.
I believe Formulas are good so that any idiot can understand your music. 
I personally just do music.. maybe I'm using formulas unconsciously, but in the end I want to express something and use whatever needed for it.
 Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 14:37
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 14:46
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if you are into cheesy stuff ,just listen astrix and you have the formula |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 16:05
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There are two main formulas out there - the HOMmega formula (Astrix being the prime example) and the MPDQX/Iboga one (Vibrasphere being the first to pop up to mind). These work for some people and not always for others though, and the psytrance scene is pretty big. Originality is sometimes rewarded, sometimes not, but the people best at applying these formulas will always get a set reaction from the crowd - very good thing from a DJ perspective.
If you work strictly on making it dancefloor compatible (trends included) then you might want to choose between Domestic (Full-On at it's most proffesional) and Osom or Artifakt (the heavier darkpsy take on these structures), FREq (the act all prog-lovers slober over for the elegant sound and structure) - X-Dream/The Delta for a much heavier take on this (Extrawelt is somewhere in between and very well made as well).
That's a cross-section of the influences on the major genres (Suomi, Goatrance and Minimal considered minor by comparison). Of course, once you analyze the formulas used by these artists, you will notice that you are not the first one to think of the bright idea that copying successful formulas works, be warned. Chances are 1 out of 1000 of these "artists" has a better ear than you, meaning you will by definition be aiming at mediocrity unless you really are a special talent - but with talent like that innovation should come easily making this point moot.
In short - instead of trying to look at others, just make something that would make YOU dance as hard as possible, use your background in NRG, Hard House and the such to your advantage - you can make some really cool shit most others just can't with that. And if you're good, it's a bigger chance to succeed than if you'd be playing other people's games (example: the success and popularity of Haltya eventually eclipsed that of Highpersonic Whomen, that same act's more "communicative" side-project which has been overshadowed by the progressive elite in that scene).
Just my take on it though. More to the point - who cares about structure if you're too busy having fun? That question is what the psytrance scene was about at the start. To some extent it still is.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 18:21
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Quote:
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On 2007-09-28 16:05, kaz wrote:
There are two main formulas out there - the HOMmega formula (Astrix being the prime example) and the MPDQX/Iboga one (Vibrasphere being the first to pop up to mind). These work for some people and not always for others though, and the psytrance scene is pretty big. Originality is sometimes rewarded, sometimes not, but the people best at applying these formulas will always get a set reaction from the crowd - very good thing from a DJ perspective.
If you work strictly on making it dancefloor compatible (trends included) then you might want to choose between Domestic (Full-On at it's most proffesional) and Osom or Artifakt (the heavier darkpsy take on these structures), FREq (the act all prog-lovers slober over for the elegant sound and structure) - X-Dream/The Delta for a much heavier take on this (Extrawelt is somewhere in between and very well made as well).
That's a cross-section of the influences on the major genres (Suomi, Goatrance and Minimal considered minor by comparison). Of course, once you analyze the formulas used by these artists, you will notice that you are not the first one to think of the bright idea that copying successful formulas works, be warned. Chances are 1 out of 1000 of these "artists" has a better ear than you, meaning you will by definition be aiming at mediocrity unless you really are a special talent - but with talent like that innovation should come easily making this point moot.
In short - instead of trying to look at others, just make something that would make YOU dance as hard as possible, use your background in NRG, Hard House and the such to your advantage - you can make some really cool shit most others just can't with that. And if you're good, it's a bigger chance to succeed than if you'd be playing other people's games (example: the success and popularity of Haltya eventually eclipsed that of Highpersonic Whomen, that same act's more "communicative" side-project which has been overshadowed by the progressive elite in that scene).
Just my take on it though. More to the point - who cares about structure if you're too busy having fun? That question is what the psytrance scene was about at the start. To some extent it still is.
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Holy Shit! thats such a professional text if I didn't know it doesn't exist I would bet you teach in a psytrance university!
Great stuff, right to the point!
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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somarobotics
Somarobotics
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
190
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 19:58
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I never think about following a structure to create my trip, maybe I should start worrying about this a little in the future... |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 20:34
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Quote:
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On 2007-09-28 19:58, somarobotics wrote:
I never think about following a structure to create my trip, maybe I should start worrying about this a little in the future...
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!! DON'T
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
809
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 21:17
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 21:45
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I believe music to be sound with form. With a defined structure. With out form and structure surely it is random noises. I have yet to hear a Psy-trance track which doesn't have form and structure.
I think its a paradox to say ignore structure and form as simply with out certain structures in place the music will cease to be Psy-trance. |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Sep 28, 2007 22:20
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Quote:
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On 2007-09-28 21:45, Psytracked wrote:
I believe music to be sound with form. With a defined structure. With out form and structure surely it is random noises. I have yet to hear a Psy-trance track which doesn't have form and structure.
I think its a paradox to say ignore structure and form as simply with out certain structures in place the music will cease to be Psy-trance.
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Yea, if you look at structure in the very basics you wouldn't even be allowed to use "notes".
I think you are missing the point by going into such depth. Sorry I don't know how to make it clear.
Its not just black and white.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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PSYKOTIK MINDZ
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
9
Posted : Sep 29, 2007 05:12
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some very intresting and intelligent replies ! I originaly asked the question mainly because i wanted to know how to arrange a tune thats dj friendly with regards to mixing it in. Sure a good dj could probebly mix anything in but it's not going to help if he thinks it's going to be a pain in the ass.
cheers |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Sep 29, 2007 14:44
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if you want to have a dj friendly track use some long and more monotone loops at the beginning and in the end of the track. this loops should be a more minimal to leave room for the next track on the fly. psytrance also works heavily with breaks (hardtrance 2 right?) you can leave some fill ins/breaks near the end of track which the dj can use to make a hard cut into the following track ( but remember that it should also work without ) also you should aim to keep repetive sounds (maybe some that hits every 16 bars) very long to the outro of so that the dj can self-decide how long he will smoothly fade out this sound.
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