| Author
|
Greeks and "dark-psy"
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 15, 2006 23:09
|
i've said what i've had to say in this thread...
OPEN YOUR EARS
OPEN YOUR MIND
PEACE LOVE UNITY RESPECT
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 11:23
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Of course psychedelia is subjective , i agree.
But obviously psychedelic experiences are also weird experiences , no?  |
|
No. Good psychedelic experiences are like religious experiences, when there is an identifiable source of enlightenment, a link that you strive to connect to that sequentially puts you into trance. Wierd psychedelic experiences are on the verge of becoming bad trips. Again this is very subjective, but from my experience, people like to go into trance and have a good time. They don't want to be on the verge of freaking out and having bad trips. Unless they are fu@ked up in their heads of course.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Kox Box / Psychopod are one of my favourite old skool psychedelic artists. I would most definitely prefer listening to them than todays dark psy
But I am startled since you dont think kox box/psychopod releases were WEIRD for their ERA? |
|
They weren't at all, hence the thousands of people that attented Kox Box gigs. No disrespect to this artist (never heard of her/him/them before this thread), but who is Derango again? What tunes has s/he/they done that swept the global dancefloors like a tidal wave? Which LP of derango is a classic like The Great Unknown is?
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Kox box and e.g Derango cannot be compared.
Similarly you can't compare Kox Box with Autechre or Aphex Twin or Vangelis.
Should we also compare Kox Box to Pink Floyd?? I hope you get my point |
|
I see you point, but its not a valid one. Of course you can compare them, they make music using the same platforms and patterns (kick/bass/BPM, ok overall Kox Box is a bit slower...thank God!), whereas there st of the people you mentioned, don't.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Production-wise.. well derango or procs relased their latest albums in 2005... kox box released music @ around 95-99+ .. mastering wise and production wise the over sound engineering of derango is better and that's not subjective as i said. |
|
 Thanks for that!
Like you said, I think you shouldn't add anything else to this topic, cause you are digging your own hole.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
THE INFINITY PROJECT - FEELING WEIRD
1995 - TIP RECORDS
Do you like it??
hah , it's weird that you mention this "weirdness" topic. funny thing is most people that dont listen to psychedelic trance in general would find most of psy goa/trance very weird music.
|
|
Yes, I do. And compare Feeling Weird to weird/dark psy, hear any differences? Well its about 10 BPM slower, there are synths that play identifiable scales, and there is not a wall of sweeping noises that takes over everything else. The title might say feeling weird, but the amount of weirdness in the music is nothing like the trackes in the aforementioned artists.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:43, andonis wrote:
And telling that it is all just nonsense is not such a strong argument. Reminds to me the comments of other dance music fans in Greece against psychedelic trance in general earlier and also today.
|
|
I did not start this topic to say that its all nonsense. I am asking why a few greeks (the minority as has been said before) find walls of dissonant noises, appealing. And remember that we are in a trance forum where people have been listening to trance music for ages. Its not your average senior citizen saying "what the hell are kids listening to these days? When I was young we were listening to Kazanjidis and we could sleep with our front doors open"...etc.
 Me>You |
|
|
|
d1m1tr1
Dark Elf
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
2168
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 13:46
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 14:19
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 13:46, dark_elf wrote:
bro dark trance or dark style is not a 'wall of dissonant noises'...
WAKE UP
|
|
Bro you sound like a jehovah's witness, banging on my front door. I listen to samples and there is a kick a fast 16th bassline and long sequences of sweeping noises with no defined pitch, i.e. dissonant and not conssonant. I am not arguing whether that is sh!t music or not, I am simply calling things by their names.
Me>You |
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 15:19
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 11:23, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Of course psychedelia is subjective , i agree.
But obviously psychedelic experiences are also weird experiences , no? |
|
No. Good psychedelic experiences are like religious experiences, when there is an identifiable source of enlightenment, a link that you strive to connect to that sequentially puts you into trance. Wierd psychedelic experiences are on the verge of becoming bad trips. Again this is very subjective, but from my experience, people like to go into trance and have a good time. They don't want to be on the verge of freaking out and having bad trips. Unless they are fu@ked up in their heads of course.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Kox Box / Psychopod are one of my favourite old skool psychedelic artists. I would most definitely prefer listening to them than todays dark psy
But I am startled since you dont think kox box/psychopod releases were WEIRD for their ERA? |
|
They weren't at all, hence the thousands of people that attented Kox Box gigs. No disrespect to this artist (never heard of her/him/them before this thread), but who is Derango again? What tunes has s/he/they done that swept the global dancefloors like a tidal wave? Which LP of derango is a classic like The Great Unknown is?
----Man get over it. any "globe sweeping" is a popularity contest and has no bearing on artistic merit of a work... and sorry- no matter how much E your 14 year old self takes i don't think you can really see the impact of psy trance like a tidal wave. you are talking about the difference between a minor ripple and a more minor ripple in terms of mass consciousness. Its not about that.
And my impression is that you do not see musical value in much of modern psy so you probably should stick to your year 2000 trance and keep your bubble going.
bom
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Kox box and e.g Derango cannot be compared.
Similarly you can't compare Kox Box with Autechre or Aphex Twin or Vangelis.
Should we also compare Kox Box to Pink Floyd?? I hope you get my point |
|
I see you point, but its not a valid one. Of course you can compare them, they make music using the same platforms and patterns (kick/bass/BPM, ok overall Kox Box is a bit slower...thank God!), whereas there st of the people you mentioned, don't.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Production-wise.. well derango or procs relased their latest albums in 2005... kox box released music @ around 95-99+ .. mastering wise and production wise the over sound engineering of derango is better and that's not subjective as i said. |
|
Thanks for that!
Like you said, I think you shouldn't add anything else to this topic, cause you are digging your own hole.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:36, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
THE INFINITY PROJECT - FEELING WEIRD
1995 - TIP RECORDS
Do you like it??
hah , it's weird that you mention this "weirdness" topic. funny thing is most people that dont listen to psychedelic trance in general would find most of psy goa/trance very weird music.
|
|
Yes, I do. And compare Feeling Weird to weird/dark psy, hear any differences? Well its about 10 BPM slower, there are synths that play identifiable scales, and there is not a wall of sweeping noises that takes over everything else. The title might say feeling weird, but the amount of weirdness in the music is nothing like the trackes in the aforementioned artists.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-15 19:43, andonis wrote:
And telling that it is all just nonsense is not such a strong argument. Reminds to me the comments of other dance music fans in Greece against psychedelic trance in general earlier and also today.
|
|
I did not start this topic to say that its all nonsense. I am asking why a few greeks (the minority as has been said before) find walls of dissonant noises, appealing. And remember that we are in a trance forum where people have been listening to trance music for ages. Its not your average senior citizen saying "what the hell are kids listening to these days? When I was young we were listening to Kazanjidis and we could sleep with our front doors open"...etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 15:35
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 15:19, ocelot wrote:
----Man get over it. any "globe sweeping" is a popularity contest and has no bearing on artistic merit of a work... and sorry- no matter how much E your 14 year old self takes i don't think you can really see the impact of psy trance like a tidal wave. you are talking about the difference between a minor ripple and a more minor ripple in terms of mass consciousness. Its not about that.
And my impression is that you do not see musical value in much of modern psy so you probably should stick to your year 2000 trance and keep your bubble going.
bom
|
|
Globe sweeping is not populatrity contest at all, it just means that a lot of people appreciate something that they like. If I wanted my tastes to come first in a popularity contest, I would have jumped on the hip-hop/r'n'b bandwagon and say that Dr Dre pisses over all the trance producers put together.
When I am speaking about impact in a global scale, I mean within the trance scene. I thought you'd understand that, since this is a trance forum and we are talking about Kox Box, but you failed to figure that one out.
And yes, I don't see musical value in much of the psy-trance music today, and simply do not conform into sheep-like behaviour and buy crap music, even if it falls under the "psy-trance" label. If that to you is living in a bubble, then mine is all warm and comfy.
Me>You |
|
|
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 18:59
|
Quote:
|
No. Good psychedelic experiences are like religious experiences, when there is an identifiable source of enlightenment, a link that you strive to connect to that sequentially puts you into trance. Wierd psychedelic experiences are on the verge of becoming bad trips. Again this is very subjective, but from my experience, people like to go into trance and have a good time. They don't want to be on the verge of freaking out and having bad trips. Unless they are fu@ked up in their heads of course.
|
|
"Good psychedelic experiences are like religious experiences, when there is an identifiable source of enlightenment, a link that you strive to connect to that sequentially puts you into trance"
I cant see why the one excludes the other.
Go read some trip reports and come and tell me there's no sense of weird.
Btw,
there are no bad trips
just bad trippers.
Quote:
| Bro you sound like a jehovah's witness, banging on my front door. I listen to samples and there is a kick a fast 16th bassline and long sequences of sweeping noises with no defined pitch |
|
same things again
that's why i think you havent heard Derango or Procs.. if all you can hear is dissonant noises , then sorry, something wrong with your ears.
Quote:
| Thanks for that!
Like you said, I think you shouldn't add anything else to this topic, cause you are digging your own hole.
|
|
ok prove it then. let's put it to some professionals and let them tell which is better mastering-wise.
Quote:
| They weren't at all, hence the thousands of people that attented Kox Box gigs. No disrespect to this artist (never heard of her/him/them before this thread), but who is Derango again? What tunes has s/he/they done that swept the global dancefloors like a tidal wave? Which LP of derango is a classic like The Great Unknown is?
|
|
First of all i didnt like the great unknown that much
I think DRAGON TALES and FOREVER AFTER were the best from kox box [ and the psychopod sideproject of course]
Derango are new artists in the scene, so you can't compare impacts and such[in the end it doesnt matter, i dont care which is more popular]
so you say KOX BOX wasnt weird..
hahah
play it to someone that doesnt listen to trance and see. Also, "WEIRD psy" as you want it is not something new, ever heard of the suomisound? [Texas faggot,squaremeat,mandalavandalz etc]..
Or classic PSY-HARMONICS record label?? [ Rip Van Hippy, Psyko Disko, Shaolin Wooden Men, Lumukanda..]
Or you want me to talk about experimental/weird psy by the GREEK Weird Alchemy[ Spyweirdos aka Spyros Polychronopoylos i think]
Quote:
| The title might say feeling weird, but the amount of weirdness in the music is nothing like the trackes in the aforementioned artists.
|
|
Yes, but it's still weird. Maybe not so weird as Ka-Sol or .. Texas Faggott, but still weird music generally.
oh, let's not forget.
they dont write this "weird music" because their talentless.. EXAMPLE: Ka-Sol.. his track on VA - Apsara (2005)..
It's just a different style they choose to follow
also
you are talking about BPMs.. another mistake of yours..
There were tracks in the past with very high BMP, higer than some of today's dark psy.
=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
Boris Blenn - Portamento 160bpm (released 1995)
Transwave - Axonal 150bpm (Released 1995)
O.O.O.D. - Slence 154bpm (Released 1996)
=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
My point is just that high bpms in trance isn't something new at all. But now a lot people have got this idea that high bpm = hard/killar/dark/whatever, which is simply incorrect.
there's dark psychedelic @ 120-130 bmp even.
[some of PROCS]
Quote:
| I see you point, but its not a valid one. Of course you can compare them, they make music using the same platforms and patterns (kick/bass/BPM, ok overall Kox Box is a bit slower...thank God!), whereas there st of the people you mentioned, don't. |
|
They focus on creating different atmospheres. Different sound.
why do i have to repeat myself?
I love old skool psychedelic / goa, but there are good releases in dark psychedelic genre still[and no, i am not talking about the compilations that get released every week.]
|
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 19:36
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
I cant see why the one excludes the other.
Go read some trip reports and come and tell me there's no sense of weird.
Btw,
there are no bad trips
just bad trippers. |
|
I did not say it has to exclude the other. I just said that weird music (and we are talking weird, from a trance point of view, where the threshold for "weird" is extremely high) makse people feel weird... uncomfortably weird, at least from my experiences after partying for a dozen of years. And I am not going to start reading up on other people's trips man, I don't have THAT much free time in my hands
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
same things again
that's why i think you havent heard Derango or Procs.. if all you can hear is dissonant noises , then sorry, something wrong with your ears. |
|
I listened to tumult and I stand by what I said (adding that I got bored out of my mind).
I understand that you are defending your favourite kind of music though, and you are simply biased.
If I was so insecure about my music tastes, I would probably be as zealous about it, as you appear to be.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
ok prove it then. let's put it to some professionals and let them tell which is better mastering-wise. |
|
So you are comparing which sounds louder? Or which sounds better? Speaking from a producers point of view, derango is full of plastik and redundant noises. The bass is flabby toyish bottom end and the production gets wrapped up so much in plugs/effects, that there is no musical drive whatsoever. That is "imo" of course and we can sit here and argue about it forever. Let's just say that the fact is that Kox Box are famous for their production skills around the trance world, whereas for all I know, derango is/are famous amongst a few members on isratrance
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
so you say KOX BOX wasnt weird..
hahah
play it to someone that doesnt listen to trance and see. |
|
I can play Madonna to someone who isn't into pop music and they will still think her tunes are weird. Read again what I wrote above, we are talking about people that are into trance music and have experience with such musical context.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
also
you are talking about BPMs.. another mistake of yours..
There were tracks in the past with very high BMP, higer than some of today's dark psy.
=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
Boris Blenn - Portamento 160bpm (released 1995)
Transwave - Axonal 150bpm (Released 1995)
O.O.O.D. - Slence 154bpm (Released 1996)
=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=
My point is just that high bpms in trance isn't something new at all. But now a lot people have got this idea that high bpm = hard/killar/dark/whatever, which is simply incorrect.
there's dark psychedelic @ 120-130 bmp even.
[some of PROCS] |
|
And I agree that higher BPM does not mean better (although I did play Portamento at -5,-6 and I remember the parties I went to in 95-96, it got played pitched down loads). Also I love Spirallianz and I think One Way LTD is a tune that has a "proper" dark vibe. But the reason I love that track is because there is space to enjoy the sounds, instead of manic-6-plugs-per-channel-dissonant-weirdness...imho always.
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 18:59, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
They focus on creating different atmospheres. Different sound.
why do i have to repeat myself?
|
|
Well finally, I got half an answer out of you!
That is what I am asking for in this topic. People to elaborate...say I like NOISE, or I like to dance at hard house tempos, or such and such...etc...etc.
I wonder why I have to explain again and again why I opened this topic in the first place!
Sheeessh...you "dark" guys are a proper bunch of fuck!ng uptight people! No wonder you like this music 
P.S. I thought you said all you had to say in this topic?
Me>You |
|
|
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 20:08
|
Quote:
| Speaking from a producers point of view, derango is full of plastik and redundant noises. The bass is flabby toyish bottom end and the production gets wrapped up so much in plugs/effects, that there is no musical drive whatsoever. |
|
well that was a misunderstanding obviously, different interpretation of the word "production".
I can see your point
but i disagree about the "no musical drive"
Quote:
|
I understand that you are defending your favourite kind of music though, and you are simply biased.
If I was so insecure about my music tastes, I would probably be as zealous about it, as you appear to be. |
|
Quote:
| That is what I am asking for in this topic. People to elaborate...say I like NOISE, or I like to dance at hard house tempos, or such and such...etc...etc.
I wonder why I have to explain again and again why I opened this topic in the first place!
Sheeessh...you "dark" guys are a proper bunch of fuck!ng uptight people! No wonder you like this music |
|
Dude
are you really a 14-year-old E-tard? I am not kidding, tell me.
Or you simply have forgotten how to READ.
Do you want me to quote myself?
So many times in this thread I've said WHICH is my favourite genre of psychedelic music. eh? Haven't I?
I also said that 75% or sth of todays dark psy is not innovative and unoriginal/becomes boring quickly.
But there are certain releases I enjoy and play now and then.
I can,at least try to , understand the message and purpose of various genres and can spot good music in most of them. Some I just like, some I just can listen to, some i just love[like LAUGHING BUDDHA - INFINITE DEPTHS EP which is playing right now].
From IDM and Ambient to rebetika.
happy now?
|
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 20:42
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 20:08, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
Dude
are you really a 14-year-old E-tard? I am not kidding, tell me.
Or you simply have forgotten how to READ.
Do you want me to quote myself?
So many times in this thread I've said WHICH is my favourite genre of psychedelic music. eh? Haven't I?
|
|
Dude.... I did not ask people which genre is their favourite. I asked WHY and WHAT is it that they like in this so called "dark" trance. In case you can't understand that either, click on the following link for extra help.
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1605/question7dp.jpg
Got it?
Me>You |
|
|
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 20:57
|
More signs of brain damage.
damn.
let me try to put it in simpler words.
you said that I was "defending my favourite kind of music", although I had said several times before in this thread what my favourite kind was.
That means that either you don't read what I say and just keep writing, or that you read and forget them afterwards[... ], or that you read but cannot comprehend.
Quote:
| I understand that you are defending your favourite kind of music though, and you are simply biased.
If I was so insecure about my music tastes, I would probably be as zealous about it, as you appear to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is what I am asking for in this topic. People to elaborate...say I like NOISE, or I like to dance at hard house tempos, or such and such...etc...etc.
I wonder why I have to explain again and again why I opened this topic in the first place!
Sheeessh...you "dark" guys are a proper bunch of fuck!ng uptight people! No wonder you like this music
|
|
|
|
|
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 21:09
|
"You like Dark Psy?"
"Yes, some of it"
"Why?"
Why? Because.
That's like asking me why I like blondes or Asians, or why I like souvlaki.
I've already replied you in a way, but obviously you didnt grasp it.
I could also add that dark psy sometimes is about satisfying animal insticts , unleashing energy or induce dark feelings and thoughts, also being trance-inducing, as any music with a beat and repetitive sounds, but I doubt you can understand all of the above either.
I've also said many times that I find it most of it to become boring after a while, but there are certain moments where it fits perfectly.
There's also "intelligence" in certain dark/dark-forest psy , such as Derango or Procs, if you can't spot it it's not my fault, sorry.
|
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 21:40
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 20:57, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
More signs of brain damage.
damn.
let me try to put it in simpler words.
you said that I was "defending my favourite kind of music", although I had said several times before in this thread what my favourite kind was.
That means that either you don't read what I say and just keep writing, or that you read and forget them afterwards[... ], or that you read but cannot comprehend.
|
|
Talk about taking things out of context nickInZoMNiACzZzzZzZ. The reason I said that you are defending your favourite music is because there was somrthing wrong with my ears. What is really wrong is your way of taking critisism.
As to what I can comprehend and how intelligent I find derango is not important to this topic. I may be 14, but be all PLUR and give us a chance nickyboyZzZZ? Anyway I finally got some more answers out of you, even if I had to use the "tsigeli".
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-16 20:57, nick_InZoMNiAC wrote:
More signs of brain damage.
damn. |
|
Eipe o gaidaros ton petino kefala.
Anyway, we've wasted 2-3 pages with redundant bickering and I did not start his topic to do that. The way things are going I am going to change my user name to 5-year old e-tard and you're going to add some more ZzZZzZ to yours. I'll give procs a listen when I can and get back to you.
Peace(?)
Me>You |
|
|
|
nick_InZoMNiAC
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 22:16
|
I am always peaceful, even when i seem aggresive
btw
for the record
i havent added any Z to my name
just replaces s with Z
Quote:
| I'll give procs a listen when I can and get back to you.
|
|
thnx [ dont listen to samples, listen to the whole album, it's a story ]
All in all it comes down to each indivual's perception of music
As I said I think there are some gems in that "dark psy" genre some people seem to diss.
|
|
|
|
Rah
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
498
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 22:19
|
we understand the need for detox to maintain the level of propaganda for your label and your music, but just cause certain names aren't signed up to "exposure" productions that dosen't mean they aren't good
Let's take rock... been out since the 60's and yet people can do something as good and acclaimed world wide as U2... which is doing it right. The problem lies in not being able to realize that no how matter how good it can get people get bored of the same ideas...(full on, goa... ring bells?) therein lies originallity in twisted trance.True psychedelic music is an accompaniment for altered states of mind. dark is nearly unexistant, and in it's most twisted way it may not even be music, but sonic stimulation... and this experience can be as personal and introspective as IDM music but in trance variants... It's not the type of tunes you expect to fill dance floors with the thousands, like it is the more widely acclaimed type of trance that happens to be what you're into. that is great and well polished and catchy and made to fill dance floors and have a beer, etc... when i want to listen to psychedelic trance i want to travel. and that does not mean it needs to unmusical... heard any procs lately (apprently not...) heard any scozbor lately? no... but you can keep pretending like there is nothing in the middle between senseless wall of sounds and feeling-infused melodies that are reality-bending.
hey e-tard, you don't conform to sheep like behavior but yet you listen to the most popular type pf psy trance.. yup that made sense... if i want to hear melodies i can hum and lyrics i can sing to why not just dwell in maddonna? i'm not looking for catchy lines when i hear 'dark' trance, even though that may help... ever heard Deja Vu project - from who will fuckin bill? Terminator - depravation chambers? get over your prenconseptions and dare look beyond the name into the music...
hope that answers questions of why i like psy trance even though i don't in live greece
elementoftime.net
musique à la carte in mp3 & wav.
Sonic-energy.net
Reviews, interviews, downloads, articles. |
|
|
|
|
