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great articles from Chris @ Blacklisted Mastering
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 16:12:02
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 16:43
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the Mix Perception article is very intresting |
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 19:11
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He is stating most of the obvious arguments for making a good mix, but it's hard to define this concept when saying one word "techno". Now there are many different types of "techno" and some of them should actually sound very degraded and dirty. However I don't fully understand what he is trying to say.
He wants everyone to use 909's and 606's?
A
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Audiosonic
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
108
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 19:26
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He wants everyone to use 909's and 606's?
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No, he wants to end 'The Loudness War' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
I think this is also why he uses such a broad term as 'techno', meaning all kinds of 4-beat electronic stuff, where the kick and bass provides the feel/groove.
I get him  but i'm also from the old school. |
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
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266
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4139
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 20:04
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I don't know what you would consider old school, but I've been around electronic music for quite some time. And still I hear releases that are either too loud or too weak, it's very subjective.
A
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
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4139
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 20:05
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And it's not necessarily in balance with how it was mastered, that should be added aswell.
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Audiosonic
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
108
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 20:21
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On 2011-07-24 20:04, A.Rosengren wrote:
I don't know what you would consider old school, but I've been around electronic music for quite some time. And still I hear releases that are either too loud or too weak, it's very subjective.
A
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Erhm.. the article is not about the releases that you hear It's about the tracks he gets sent for him to work on...
You might believe that this loudness war is not an issue, but it is. To such an extent that wikipedia articles is written about it, mentioning practically every great producer or rockband for the last 30 years, and their view/opinion on the subject...
Me being oldskool refers to me making music loong before digital production was invented, and realtime synthesis on a PC was pure sci-fi This problem is not just about techno, and you'd know that if you read the wiki article...
It's not about you finding some album too loud or too weak.. it's about pure facts, measuring soundlevels, crushing dynamic range and so on, and so on...
But.. as i said, i sure get him. Try listening to the 3 different examples in the wiki page, and tell me that this trend is not destructive for our music
Please keep in mind that radiostations compress even further When radiostations play tracks that are limited, and cram them through furher limiting, then all life is gone.. Thats why producers make 'radio mixes', which are less squashed because they'll end up squashed when played on air eventually.... actually, the article explains this in detail too
The article also explains in detail exactly WHY producers and mastering engineers is longing for as loud a signal as possible...
Please don't belittle a very controversial worldwide debate like the loudness war just because you do not understand it, or because 'you once heard an album that was low in volume'... this is very technical stuff, and as the article states, it is well documented, and practically anyone in the music business has an opinion about it.
Cheers
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
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4139
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 20:55
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I did read the article, I found it very interesting. And I did point out that it is not the actual mastering that brings out the depth and the air in the music I speak about. The better the raw material, the better the refined material sounds.
However most soundsystems you play at are not good enough to translate this in the way you want it to anyways. In a world where loudness is everything.
A
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
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4139
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 21:09
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One thing I absolutly do agree with him on is artists sending compressed and limited material to a mastering engineer, it's not only unprofessional it also shows how uneducated todays musicians are.
A
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 02:40
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guys have you checked the other articles some nice stuff, posted this cause 3 of these articles answer lot of topics of the forum.
about the loudness one thing i think he is not talking much, is that loud tunes have a shorter life, it s not plesant to the ears ,it make music more sterile.
something at -8 rms our even louder for sure would be more plesant to our ears at -12 rms if it s properly mixed
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 03:01
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I read all articles on his website. Including the wiki on paster later.
Goood reading for the day but not really anything new.
A
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Audiosonic
Started Topics :
2
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108
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 17:26
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On 2011-07-24 21:09, A.Rosengren wrote:
One thing I absolutly do agree with him on is artists sending compressed and limited material to a mastering engineer, it's not only unprofessional it also shows how uneducated todays musicians are. |
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Oh, sry for my excessive post then :S I realise now that we very much agree on this subject!
Yes, the dynamics in a mix is the life of the track, before even thinking of mastering. It needs to breathe Like Rosengren i too believe that many modern musicians doesn't respect this concept, and that's what i meant by me being oldskool.. |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 18:48
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now it makes sense why some parvarti cds sound so dulll at some certain moods...
i ve been analizin some parvarti tracks..some were hiting -4 - 5 rms X O
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
454
Posted : Jul 27, 2011 01:16
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if i might chime in, as i at least, have been sitting in the hot chair as far as some parvati releases are concerned. Have you ever considered the option that the raw material sent for mastering simply did not have any dynamics to begin with? This has a much more serious effect than anything else. It´s hard to compare the finished product without raw mixes as well. I can tell you for a fact the the most dynamic tracks i get sent hover somewhere around -8 to - 6db rms but some certainly have even less.
I´d be careful not to make assumptions nor even educated guesses as to what link in the process could have caused such a thing to happen. Dullness and sharpness is mainly up to the mix and not the mastering, with the exceptions of truly unruly and very unbalanced mixes where time constraints defines the necessary compromises.
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Jul 27, 2011 02:56
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never said they are bad and in fact i love parvarti tracks but once i noticed they were very loud compared to other tracks so i did put in analizer to check the rms and they were realy loud... have no ideia why and if its right or wrong or if its mix fault or master fault lol
but i did read the text pom posted and parvarti tracks came up in my mind...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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