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Goa Trance Production Vs House Music

dopey576
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  234
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 22:31
I heard from a friend the other day that composing/producing Goa Trance is easier than producing house music. I got SO pissed because i think that Goa Trance is one of the most intelligent form of dance music and is SUPER hard to produce. My friend also said that Goa Trance is easier to mix. He based his argument of Trance having a 4/4 tempo etc. etc. I will let him explain himself when I send him this link. But I am only a listener and would like the perspective of people have produced Goa Trance or anyone with an opinion.
          ToO mUcH pReSsUrE oN tHe BrAiN
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  933
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 22:40
goapsy trance are the hardest styles to produce man. well you're not a producer but i think you can get this. compare the complexity of a trance track with any other thing. compare the complexity of their sounds (synths). compare the complexity of the effects... and compare the amount of elements a goapsy track has compared to the silly house. i know a guy who has absolutly no tecnical skill and he's going to edit a track... he uses FL Studio with the default plugins, he doesn't even know you can install vst (i know this will be hard to understand for you but just get this how a guy that uses minimal equipment and with little experience can edit a track? and believe me he's no special talent. about mixing that depends on each one's skills... the mixing process is different from style to style and some are good at a process and other's are good at another.

well every DJ says it's style is the hardest to mix because of the difficultys he faces everyday... it's normal also every producer says the same about his style altough i know two hard techno DJs (one is a sound technical teacher another is learning it) that said me that the production quality of some psy pro artists is unbeatable and believe me they hate trance !

just tell the guy to make a good quality kick and bassline riff with good eq and everything and he won't say that anymore
i also know sound engineers that say that mixing trance (not DJing, i'm talking about EQ and stuff) is much much MUCH harder than any other style.
Get-a-fix
Getafix

Started Topics :  147
Posts :  1441
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 22:46
It might be true for Dj'ing since house tempos can vary quite a lot..But for producing there is no way you can compare..

I'm not dissing house music but most of it is loop based with not a lot of stuff happening..There's no way you can compare it to the depth of psy/goa trance!           http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic
john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  47
Posts :  263
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 23:03
psytrance imo is easily the hardest genre to produce overall. but i will tell u what, producing a progressive house track, thats sparse, and minimal, yet sounds very full and doesnt sound empty is very difficult as well, another type of difficult. also creating energy from a slow beat thats like 130 bpm is harder than making a fullon 145 bassline sound energetic. u guys should settle it like this though:
you make a house track, and he tries to write a psy tune, and then see whos track is better
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 23:23
Quote:

On 2006-01-25 22:31, dopey576 wrote:
My friend also said that Goa Trance is easier to mix. He based his argument of Trance having a 4/4 tempo etc. etc.




Tell him he's an idiot for arguing this...

Ask him:
Firstly what does the mixing process have to do with the time-signature?
Mixing itself is purely technical whereas a time-signature is the rhythm of the piece of music.

Secondly... House is in 4/4 as well! (if he argued that house is more difficult to mix because of this he must be a complete no-brainer)


However, I will add that there are other aspects of engineering house music as well which are not present in psytrance to the same extent, however this is mostly commercially down to dedicated mix and master engineers...

Psytrance is undoubtably more complicated though, and I believe craves a far greater understanding of synthesis and sound design/engineering.
And in terms of the income(money) to quality ratio it is up there at the top (with Drum and Bass coming a close second)

House is just (IMO) shit... (but some wicked engineers working on the tracks)

          www.myspace.com/beat_nik
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 23:31
Quote:

On 2006-01-25 23:03, john_c wrote:
psytrance imo is easily the hardest genre to produce overall.



John_c, I will have to disagree with you there, although you make a valid point.

I feel psytrance is in terms of production the hardest to produce as most artists do not make alot of money and therefore do not have the money to buy expensive incredible equipment - yet the quality at the top-end of the production is extremely high.

However, I feel that it is not the hardest as it is only one production discipline... and therefore can not be compared to others.

I personally think (apart from the ridiculous limiting and track compression) that real pop music is fantastically produced - the producers/engineers squeeze out the best radio, club and living room sound - from a track which might really be piss poor...

Also engineering and recording high-quality classical music is incredibly difficult...

However in terms of dance music, I believe that Psytrance is the most complicated and powerful form the genre is applied to - and therefore will craves far more attention to detail to get sounding good, than a simple house track...           www.myspace.com/beat_nik
john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  47
Posts :  263
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 23:35
NikC: i was implying within electronic music. i cannot comment on non-edm as i dont have much knowledge. Also, while Pop music has fantastic sound quality (usually because its done by the biggest studios with the best equipment) remember that the music is so simple, its much easier balancing the components of the track. Psy on paper is a nitemare, you are dealing with alien noises and so many different competing frequencies yet trying to make it sound crystal clear. In terms of writing a track, and not just the mastering aspect, i dont see anything competing with psy in terms of complexity. dunno about classical though
Aviad

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  31
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 23:48
I think it is stupid to say such thing as well as the opposite of it as most of ppl in here think.
Good goa is as good as good house for those who understand and like these genres, although not many can do it good.
What is right to say, that house is music genre for wider crowd, then it should be more let's say simple(in therms of listener reaction) while goa is for "brainwashed = us" who like it be "complex=psychedelic".
all these are subjective things.
Just to mention that house rule because there is no much goa producers these days, well i'm sorry for it i like this style much.

Easier to mix, well goa been made of simple percussive layouts while most of house about advanced beats, good DJ should know to mix the both, do not forget that goa have much more complex melodies and effect so it is as hard as house to mix if we come to final conclusion, those who call some styles special just subjective rather realistic.

I don't know how to compare style that dead years ago to the freshest item on market, sure nowadays house is better quality then 95' goa, but remember there maybe few who still produce goa so i think it is unfair to compare.

All fine with good music and it require great amount of time and talent to producer whether its goa, psytrance or house.
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 00:03
Ah John_C mate, I get you ...
Electronic music wise i only see works such as Stockhausen's 'classical' electronic and some other avant garde stuff competing with psytrance in terms of Alien noises and general complexity.

And yes Aviad, I do agree that in whichever discipline of music, it takes time and talent to produce it...
However I took 'Goa Trance' to mean modern psytrance, as it seems like this is what dopey meant.

I do feel though that John_C is right in saying that if you were to give a good house producer a psytrance track to create he would have great difficulty starting, whereas a good psytrance producer could probably create something housy with good production in a far shorter period of time.

As for melodic talent or musical talent in production, i feel they are very different... a catchy house track is a gem... there are few truly catchy psytrance tracks.           www.myspace.com/beat_nik
Aviad

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  31
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 00:26
Decent producer can do any of styles he/she will asked to do with much talent. Lets see, Simon Posford, he done psytrance as Hallucinogen and doing Chillout as Shpongle along with Raja. Both of project have/had a huge sucess.

I can start stupid conversation with you about things you say and they are not right but bit elistist since you produce psytrance yourself, i just wouldn't you will get how wrong you are in your time, or not. I don't mind.
I like ppl who set challenge up to them but i don't like those who just pressure airflow with their mouth. Prove you right, make good house track, probably you will get more money for it, pre release of house track could reach up to 1000$ as for beginning and for beginner.
dopey576
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  234
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 00:28
Aviad: To me GOA = PSYTRANCE ... sorry i am not one for classification etc. The difference has been argued about in other threads but lets not differentiate the two here.

I too feel that Trance is harder to produce in my initial post. By saying im a listener -- i am an avid listener. I have been listening to goa trance for over 6 years now but have also been open to listening to dnb and occassionally house. I think john_c has a point there with slow minimal but powerful progressive tracks being super hard to produce.           ToO mUcH pReSsUrE oN tHe BrAiN
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 01:22
Quote:

On 2006-01-26 00:26, Aviad wrote:
Decent producer can do any of styles he/she will asked to do with much talent. Lets see, Simon Posford, he done psytrance as Hallucinogen and doing Chillout as Shpongle along with Raja. Both of project have/had a huge sucess.

I can start stupid conversation with you about things you say and they are not right but bit elistist since you produce psytrance yourself, i just wouldn't you will get how wrong you are in your time, or not. I don't mind.
I like ppl who set challenge up to them but i don't like those who just pressure airflow with their mouth. Prove you right, make good house track, probably you will get more money for it, pre release of house track could reach up to 1000$ as for beginning and for beginner.



Excuse me... I think you have managed to grab the wrong end of the stick quite firmly.

I write psytrance yes... But i'm also performing an electronic (non-dance) piece to a large, sit-down, academic audience at a contemporary music concert here in London this Friday.

I also write real notated music for orchestral instruments (I'm classically trained, and have studied composition)
I've written Drum and Bass
I've written cheesy trance music
And yes... I've even written house music... but it doesn't appeal to me to write it anymore as it is not something I enjoy making
- and most importantly I don't find it a challenge enough to really improve on my production engineering and musicality... something which I personally find in psytrance I can do.

Mate, please understand what I'm saying instead of telling me "how wrong I will be in my time"...

I may be younger than you (I don't know) but I've studied classical music since I was 4, got a music scholarship to a prestigious school, and written all kinds of electronic music, because I like alot of music...

And as everyone who knows me will know, I'm constantly trying to improve my sound and my writing in music...

So for you to come, without knowing anything about me, and then calling me ignorant is a gross presumption...


And by the way, next time read my posts properly - you'll see that I'm not really even disagreeing with you...

Think before you post.
          www.myspace.com/beat_nik
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  60
Posts :  3709
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 01:45
NikC my man! do you do free private lessons? i would love to know the stuff you know

anyway! i got to agree with you (yeah im sucking up for some free lessons in notation and composition hehe)
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 01:52
haha

Cheers New Era Scientist!... well, I'm still studying (I guess you can never stop learning heh) but PM me if you want ... I'm sure I'm definitely not at all qualified to teach - but I'll always try to help out if you have a query

Sorry bout the massive post btw guys... I just feel Aviad is really basing his judgment of me only by the fact I have a blue name on this forum by saying I'm:
Quote:
bit elistist since you produce psytrance yourself, i just wouldn't you will get how wrong you are in your time, or not.



aah well... such is life

Peace
          www.myspace.com/beat_nik
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  60
Posts :  3709
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 02:07
i think Aviad is nolightatend

and sure i will pm you when i have some queries thanks NikC
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