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Giving away music Vs CD releases for income.
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : May 25, 2009 15:02
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On 2009-05-25 14:43, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2009-05-24 15:44, disco hooligans wrote:
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On 2009-05-23 23:59:33, Product_Placement wrote:
I will retain 100% ownership of the tracks even though they are made public. |
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you would do so either way
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That is hardly true.
Yes, you always own the copyright, but with most labels you sign away distribution rights to the label and usually performance rights to royalty organisations.
So you might own your tracks, but without permission you are not allowed to make a copy of your CD to a friend, sell copies yourself at a party, play the tracks in public or have the tracks in a player on your website.
I would not call that 100% ownership.
OT: I must say I very much enjoyed "clear skies"...I very rarely find morning music I really like, but your stuff is excellent...I hope it lands you lots of gigs!
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You have a point, but the music is yours, which is what I was going on about. I am not very familiar with the marketing point of things, insightful post!
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On 2009-05-25 14:43, Spindrift wrote:
OT: I must say I very much enjoyed "clear skies"...I very rarely find morning music I really like, but your stuff is excellent...I hope it lands you lots of gigs!
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Thanks mate, glad you liked it 
The gigs are not pilling in, but we had our first live with Tristan and Dado and the reaction was great!
Not often do you have the people whose tunes got you into making music, asking to get your new tunes. That felt fucken fantastic 
Let's see what else falls through the mail and see if the whole giving the music away for free thing, actually works.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : May 25, 2009 15:54
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On 2009-05-23 23:59:33, Product_Placement wrote:
Pros for Give Aways:
Better publicity, more people will be hearing your music because they won't have to pay for it.
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not sure , they download more released stuff lolz..
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People are going to pirate anyway, so it might be easier not going against the grain here.
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normal stream is : release > download pirated.. anything else is out of the usual way it goes today.. for most users in most countries specialy of trance world (not everywhere)
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Psytrance is such a small genre that its pointless trying to make money off CD sales.
I will retain 100% ownership of the tracks even though they are made public.
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not true , there are ways to profit very nice from cds , pm for more data.
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More gigs because more people will be exposed to my music.
Self perpetuating advertising @ $0 cost
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advertise for free is nice , but then you are 1 out of X000... pay redicuolus amounts on forums and social networks to get bigger exposure , also handle your promo all alone is VERY hard and time consume if you want to compete with those that have others that work for them!
Pro Label
More $ CD sales, but seriously how much?
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much if they know what they do , maybe x10 then what you can sell alone. not to mention it will be downloaded probably even more.
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Label tag can help get you gigs
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no , label ARRANGE TOUR for you an get you x10 more gigs then you can get alone. lineups getting more and more by labels then artists
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Label pays for advertising
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good point , and invest alot of TIME on it.
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Ok im really struggling to think of more pros here....
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they pay too?
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do both
best will be to sell the right to distribute the tracks on cd for label for 1 year then realese it for free on your site , make net releases + cds + whatever you can.
shoot in all directions and see where it hits then go that way.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : May 25, 2009 15:59
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On 2009-05-25 14:43, Spindrift wrote:
That is hardly true.
Yes, you always own the copyright, but with most labels you sign away distribution rights to the label and usually performance rights to royalty organisations.
So you might own your tracks, but without permission you are not allowed to make a copy of your CD to a friend, sell copies yourself at a party, play the tracks in public or have the tracks in a player on your website.
I would not call that 100% ownership.
OT: I must say I very much enjoyed "clear skies"...I very rarely find morning music I really like, but your stuff is excellent...I hope it lands you lots of gigs!
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only 6 month up to 1 year EXCLUSIVE DISTRO ONLY , then its 100% back yours. depend if this is the contract you sign.
later you can do whatever you want with it include re-sell it and all ,no one will prevent you from burn it on hard copy for promo use etc.. just maybe if its totaly new.
90% of sales are in 3 months so there is no point to strech the deal any longer then that even really...
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 25, 2009 18:28
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On 2009-05-25 15:59, Elad wrote:
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On 2009-05-25 14:43, Spindrift wrote:
That is hardly true.
Yes, you always own the copyright, but with most labels you sign away distribution rights to the label and usually performance rights to royalty organisations.
So you might own your tracks, but without permission you are not allowed to make a copy of your CD to a friend, sell copies yourself at a party, play the tracks in public or have the tracks in a player on your website.
I would not call that 100% ownership.
OT: I must say I very much enjoyed "clear skies"...I very rarely find morning music I really like, but your stuff is excellent...I hope it lands you lots of gigs!
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only 6 month up to 1 year EXCLUSIVE DISTRO ONLY , then its 100% back yours. depend if this is the contract you sign.
later you can do whatever you want with it include re-sell it and all ,no one will prevent you from burn it on hard copy for promo use etc.. just maybe if its totaly new.
90% of sales are in 3 months so there is no point to strech the deal any longer then that even really...
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Some labels might agree to those terms, but many will not. Regarding making your own copies, it depends on if you and the label are registered with a royalty organisation.
If you are not, it's up to the label to set the terms, so then you do have to ask for permission or ensure that they add a clause to the contract allowing you do the kind of distribution you would want to do.
Sure...likelihood that they will sue you for burning a CD for your DJ friend is almost non-existent, but just because you will not get caught and punished for taking something doesn't mean you own it.
If you are a member of a royalty organisation, you have to report to them for any public performance or broadcast as well as for any copying.
As I recall you can be allowed a certain number of promotional copies without paying mechanical royalties, but I'm not sure what the terms are and if you have to still report them.
And it's not possible to negotiate a time limitation to the contract with royalty organisations...if you are a member all of your tracks will always have the rights for duplication and performance in the hands of them.
I'm not saying you give away all your rights, but one can hardly say that you retain 100% ownership with the usual label releasing on CD.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : May 26, 2009 05:02
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And it's not possible to negotiate a time limitation to the contract with royalty organisations...if you are a member all of your tracks will always have the rights for duplication and performance in the hands of them.
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but they NEVER will do so without the proper payment. neither will prevent you from release it for free.
you sign your rights only so they can actualy have some leagal power about your music.
actualy the musicians i know that really makes any good money from music are signed and get alot of money from those organizations (specialy when your music is on TV you HAVE to sign there - for your own good , you can not to , but then getting the payment is impossible.. usualy tv and radio and dj's pay 1 year fee for all the music they use)
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Product_Placement
Product Placement
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10
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Posted : May 26, 2009 07:41
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Quote from 'Tom Cosm' on the same topic in another forum:
Since I started my pro membership service, I have been earning enough to live life as a full time musician quite happily.... funnily enough once I started the pro memberships, donations increased a lot as well. The majority of people who subscribe to my pro memberships are in it for the Tutorial videos and Ableton Live packs, so I guess you could say I have gone the free approach with my music, and monetized it elsewhere by teaching people over the internet.
One thing that has been working for me lately, is by putting this on the bottom of all my promos (which i send about 2-300 out per month)
"To optionally support the production of this content, donate a $5, $10 or $15 dollars into ACC : ##### BSB : #### - then email me for epic thanks"
handing people a CD and asking them to make up their own mind what it is worth can be pretty powerful if done right.
When I put a new tune online, it averages about 7000 downloads in the first week, and the ableton packs around 13000 (my hosting company hates me)... so the distribution massively outweighs that from a label release.
The main point I guess, is that giving all my music away for free makes me feel richer than any money could bring in. The looks on peoples faces when they get free CDs, the strange emails in the middle of the night from some guy in nigeria rocking out with his mates, and being able to data mine the stats and follow the trend of how word of mouth is spreading about my music is something I would never exchange for any amount. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : May 26, 2009 12:21
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On 2009-05-26 05:02, Elad wrote:
neither will prevent you from release it for free.
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Wrong...if you are a member of a royalty organisation you are obliged to pay a license if you make the music available as streams or downloads.
Same goes for physical copies...if they are used for promotional purposes rather than being offered for sale the rate is just a bit lower.
At least that is what STIM (swedish royalty organisation) told me, and a quick look at PRS website confirms that the rule is the same in the UK. I sincerely doubt that there are any royalty organisations that have a different position.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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166
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Posted : May 26, 2009 12:31
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the strange emails in the middle of the night from some guy in nigeria rocking out with his mates.
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Did he offer to donate 14.000.000US (fourteen million US dollars) he inherited from his late, royal father into Tom's account?
Sorry.  |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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Posted : May 26, 2009 15:12
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On 2009-05-26 06:09, Elad wrote:
all the "great" downloads are there just since you can for change to actualy see how much it is.
realese on cd wont get less downloads+the sales+even more downloads!
if you could track emule and bittorent you would know but neither of us have the numbers , but many stuff on cds gets to sharing sites and free-realeses arent.
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and another thing
about the royalties... what can you do if you hear your track on the radio 24/7 and they use it for morning aerobic tv show ??
only way i know (and thats more money then any label release) is with the copyright org.
as long as its real underground its not worth it true , im not even signed there yet , but anyhow i allready know i lost about the registry fee after my tracks been on radio and tv.. i might even lose from not sign there , but i still wait to see if it gets anymore commercialy succesfull then i will defintly have to.
the payments they demand is not that much come on now ,100$ initial registry + 20$ for print your own album in how much copies you want if pritty fair i reken. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Product_Placement
Product Placement
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10
Posts :
100
Posted : May 26, 2009 15:28
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : May 26, 2009 20:35
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On 2009-05-25 18:28, Spindrift wrote:
Yes, you always own the copyright, but with most labels you sign away distribution rights to the label and usually performance rights to royalty organisations.
So you might own your tracks, but without permission you are not allowed to make a copy of your CD to a friend, sell copies yourself at a party, play the tracks in public or have the tracks in a player on your website.
I would not call that 100% ownership.
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that convinces me not to release anything ever and stay deep down in the underground
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : May 26, 2009 20:52
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
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1560
Posted : May 27, 2009 01:55
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Quote:
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On 2009-05-26 15:12, Elad wrote:
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On 2009-05-26 06:09, Elad wrote:
all the "great" downloads are there just since you can for change to actualy see how much it is.
realese on cd wont get less downloads+the sales+even more downloads!
if you could track emule and bittorent you would know but neither of us have the numbers , but many stuff on cds gets to sharing sites and free-realeses arent.
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and another thing
about the royalties... what can you do if you hear your track on the radio 24/7 and they use it for morning aerobic tv show ??
only way i know (and thats more money then any label release) is with the copyright org.
as long as its real underground its not worth it true , im not even signed there yet , but anyhow i allready know i lost about the registry fee after my tracks been on radio and tv.. i might even lose from not sign there , but i still wait to see if it gets anymore commercialy succesfull then i will defintly have to.
the payments they demand is not that much come on now ,100$ initial registry + 20$ for print your own album in how much copies you want if pritty fair i reken.
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If you release on a label that is registered with a royalty organisation they will collect money for you even if you have not registered.
But to get the money you need to register and give them the rights for all your music with no exceptions.
I know since they are holding a few hundred euro of mine ransom 
So you can call them and check how much they owe you and decide if it's worth joining.
Actually I had a look at the STIM website and noticed that you do not have to buy a license to have music on your own website anymore...so I guess there might be more countries where they have changed the rules regarding that.
So give them a call and check how it works in your country. In my experience they are very helpful and they are actually working for the artists. It's just that the interests of small artists making obscure underground music has not been very well looked after, but it seems like they are trying to get better.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 27, 2009 07:55
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makus
Overdream
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Posted : May 27, 2009 12:02
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On 2009-05-25 15:54, Elad wrote:
do both
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man, that's such a simple answer
i totally agree. and besides all, this is such a cool experience to be released 'officialy'.
however i feel selling music is an exrta barrier between the listener and the musician.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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