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Give something back to the artists or not?
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 18:26:07
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I have been wondering what motivate so many people to not give anything back to the artists who's music they seem to enjoy so much. In my opinion the whole "give away free music" movement is a great way to promote yourself as an artist and reach people who would never have discovered your music. Or is this just an old cliche? But in my opinion free music also deserve donations from those who really enjoy the music and play the free music (Especially DJ's who get paid while playing free music).
Let's say an artist release an album for free and have approx. 20.000 unique downloads (not a "fantasy" number on Ektoplazm) and a lot of really good feedback but not one single donation. Is this OK? I know some artists get bookings but let's face it. Most artist (with a few exceptions) who get bookings are those who are on well-known labels (no matter the quality or number of releases). But I want to look away from the "bookings pay the artists" as it's not really the whole truth and does not apply all artists.
I know there are tons of new releases each week and of course you wont be able to donate to every new release you like but I have the feeling it is very few (if any?) free releases who get donations at all.
What's your opinion on this matter? Does free releases deserve donations from people who really like the music and keep listening to it (or playing the music at their DJ gigs)?
  www.beatagency.dk |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 18:55
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Morally, yes they deserve.
Is it realistic to expect people to donate? no.
I think its too much hassle, first you need a paypal account which for me is a PIA to have (the card confirmation number doesnt show on my CC receipt).
A great number of people enjoying this music (kids, unemployed and other artist) doesnt have Credit cards anyway and going to the bank just to deposit a donation is a super duper PIA.
What would be nice in ektoplasm is to have a free and and a PAY button for wav's or just for replacing the donate buton so they can charge my CC directly with out using paypal.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 19:02
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On 2011-06-13 18:55, Login wrote:
Morally, yes they deserve.
Is it realistic to expect people to donate? no.
I think its too much hassle, first you need a paypal account which for me is a PIA to have (the card confirmation number doesnt show on my CC receipt).
A great number of people enjoying this music (kids, unemployed and other artist) doesnt have Credit cards anyway and going to the bank just to deposit a donation is a super duper PIA.
What would be nice in ektoplasm is to have a free and and a PAY button for wav's or just for replacing the donate buton so they can charge my CC directly with out using paypal.
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Is it less of a hassle to buy a CD online with your credit card, paypal or bank transfer?  I know you get a physical product but the music is the same no matter the format.
But yes more options to donate is a good idea no matter if it's on Ektoplazm or elsewhere. However I am not sure it would make more people donate as people have complained that music was too expensive and they would buy more IF it got cheaper etc. But here they got absolutely free music but still they do not donate.
I personally believe we need a change in the way people look at free music (or music in general - as being something valuable instead of something just up for grabs) and in general the overall moral. An "old song" - I know it  But I simply can not see what else can explain people not paying/donating for the music they love. www.beatagency.dk |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 19:38
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I'd like paying for music i love but most of the time I wouldn't know if I'm gonna like what I get.
For example I've thought of legally buying many of the albums I have downloaded just because I want to have a proper djset and really support and thank artist that could make this possible and most important because I've already fallen in love with this albums, I feel I have a debt.
But for new music and specially nowadays... how should I know if I will love music enough to pay for it based on a couple minute preview???
This is no excuse whatsoever I know I should pay for everything downloaded I might like or not but I just don't have so much re$ources. Thing is I need to actually listen a lot to certain track or album to decide if it is worth it, it has to be playing for a couple of weeks in my ipod list.
I have been buying much more software these days than I used to, mainly because I have the money that I didn't had b4 and I really appreciate what developers do just as much as musicians and I would also like to sell my tracks in the future.
So in the near future I will be investing a lot on music but surely I will keep on illegal downloading before actually buying the tracks in Hi Quality format. The ones that make it to the finals you know. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 19:41
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On 2011-06-13 19:38, aciduss wrote:
But for new music and specially nowadays... how should I know if I will love music enough to pay for it based on a couple minute preview???
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If you keep the music after you downloaded it (free legal release) and still like it and still listen to it (or play it as a DJ) would you then donate? I am not debating about samples and listening before downloading but after downloading and realizing you love the music
As an example Ektoplazm has full pre-listen's before downloading www.beatagency.dk |
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PoM
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 20:09
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majority don t pay when something is avalaible for free except if they have some spare money ,to donate and then get the music could work better imo.
many are not used to pay for music,add to this lot of crap release ,that don t motivate ppl to buy for something they will listen 3 times. lot of the music have a very short life these days making it worht less and less money or maybe it s just me.
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 20:26
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On 2011-06-13 20:09, PoM wrote:
majority don t pay when something is avalaible for free except if they have some spare money ,to donate and then get the music could work better imo.
many are not used to pay for music,add to this lot of crap release ,that don t motivate ppl to buy for something they will listen 3 times. lot of the music have a very short life these days or maybe it s just me.
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You misunderstand the topic
I am speaking about people who downloaded a legal free release and like it and play it continuous (as a private person or Dj) but still do not bother to donate. I am not speaking about some random person checking out a release playing it 1-3 times.
www.beatagency.dk |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 20:32
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oops my bad i mixed a bit everyhting but i think one of problem is beeing used to get it for free, some of these ppl have never bought music of their entire life |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 20:52
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-13 19:02, Beat Agency wrote:
Is it less of a hassle to buy a CD online with your credit card, paypal or bank transfer? I know you get a physical product but the music is the same no matter the format.
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Paying with Credit card is no hassle, I buy regularly at beatport. Since its hard for me to find good psy at beatport I just dont buy it there or anywhere.
I live in Mexico and ordering physical copies has been a very bad experience, last time I order, 180 USD worth of cd's didnt get here 
I download all my new psy from ektoplasm and I have the desire to donate but right now its too much hassle having to go to the bank to make the deposit wait days and then remeber I can make the donation. I will like to use my credit card.
If ektoplasm sold its realeses in WAV for something like 3 or 7 USD I will pay right away for the stuff I like. (even as I wont download the WAV XD)
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 21:00
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I think it would be going in the wrong direction to start to sell the wav's. All that is needed are more ways to donate. But I am still questioning if more solutions will generate any donations.
www.beatagency.dk |
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Serag
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 21:01
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well this just confirm my theory that the ppl still is not prepared to an open source.
is not about marketing and credit cards or PIA whatever, is about consciousness and ppl still are animals who are willing to consume everything without giving nothing in exchange.
and thats why we need to keep selling the music to prevent the end of this scene. how are the musicians gona pay their gear, electricity and food to keep making music?. lets do something : all the artists should just stop making music for a year and then the audience will wake up finnaly fukers.
and we can be sure that the "promote yourself to have more gigs " is bullshit. this is just making every kid buy a computer and make shity beats and put them in ektoplazm. the same happened with beatspace and all this distributors they just finance every single piece of shit that ppl send to them, so the scene is full of devil worshipers, and thats the reason this scene is down under. because of ppl who try to make businees with non quality music.
less is more. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 21:14
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-13 21:01, Serag wrote:
well this just confirm my theory that the ppl still is not prepared to an open source.
is not about marketing and credit cards or PIA whatever, is about consciousness and ppl still are animals who are willing to consume everything without giving nothing in exchange.
and thats why we need to keep selling the music to prevent the end of this scene. how are the musicians gona pay their gear, electricity and food to keep making music?. lets do something : all the artists should just stop making music for a year and then the audience will wake up finnaly fukers.
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Selling the music wont solve anything (and is not at all a solution) as most music being sold suffer just as much as free legal releases. The key is people's will to support the artists they like (supporting a few artists at a few gigs is not proper support IMO). At the moment I see very little willingness to support anyone but people's own needs. It's a symptom of the World as it is today. Its interesting that Historians and anthropologists are calling today's generation "The Ego generation". IMO What is needed is a change in overall attitude and for people to start realizing that art (music) is something valuable (and not some berry you pick from a tree) and that artists deserve to be compensated too. Kind words are very nice but let's face it. Most artists (no matter what art they make) does not feel 100% acknowledged and accepted without some sort of compensation for their contribution to world art.
www.beatagency.dk |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 21:24
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Unfortunately people in our days dont have enough money to spend for music even though music is one of their main interests and means of entertainment.
They can get their music for free and once they get it they dont care whether the producer spend time and money in order to create it,even if they care like i said before they cant afford to donate.
In my humble opinion though people should put aside every month 5-10 euros and donate it to the artists or labels they really really love.This ammount money is not extraordinary and one can save it by not going out for a coffee one evening.
If each one of us donated 5 euros each to two of our favorite artists or labels every month then things would be much better for everyone because artists dont get as many gigs as people might believe.
If for example Ace Ventura,Headroom,Liquid Soul,Hallucinogen,Ocelot,Parasense,Aes Dana and Jaia have 500 fans each out there then this would mean like 2000-2500 euros per month in their account. This is good money which can make their life easier and their studio even more improved.
But unfortunately people only like taking and not giving and thats why many artists cant survive and leave this scene or produce more commercial music to support themselves and their families.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Serag
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 21:32
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-13 21:24, DETOX wrote:
Unfortunately people in our days dont have enough money to spend for music even though music is one of their main interests and means of entertainment.
They can get their music for free and once they get it they dont care whether the producer spend time and money in order to create it,even if they care like i said before they cant afford to donate.
In my humble opinion though people should put aside every month 5-10 euros and donate it to the artists or labels they really really love.This ammount money is not extraordinary and one can save it by not going out for a coffee one evening.
If each one of us donated 5 euros each to two of our favorite artists or labels every month then things would be much better for everyone because artists dont get as many gigs as people might believe.
If for example Ace Ventura,Headroom,Liquid Soul,Hallucinogen,Ocelot,Parasense,Aes Dana and Jaia have 500 fans each out there then this would mean like 2000-2500 euros per month in their account. This is good money which can make their life easier and their studio even more improved.
But unfortunately people only like taking and not giving and thats why many artists cant survive and leave this scene or produce more commercial music to support themselves and their families.
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exactly thats the unavoidable destiny that all art makers will have. or u go commercial or u retire. |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 13, 2011 22:04
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Changing people attitudes towards their habits of music consumptions its IMHO the hardest thing to do.
Sadly the reality of the scene is that the great majority of the public isnt interested that much in Buying music.
In other electronic scenes there is as much piracy as in psy, but there is a difference: DJ's still exist that make a living (or a part time job) of their residencies.
They are the prime consumers of electronic music, cause they use it.
The regular listener doesnt know much about labels they just download what ever they find in blogs and torrentz.
Dj's on the other hand seek for some specific label, artist or genre, they dig in beatport and similar sites, get the latest music they are going to use at clubs.
It will be interesting to get that numbers: of the total of consumers of electronic music how many are dj's and how many are fans? And how much of the sales they represent?
Since in the psy scene there arent many dj's (cause alll we know the predilection for "live acts") consumption is limited to a very small number of fans.
Also this "live act" predilection has a lock upon new comers, there is no way with only live acts at parties that new music is presented to the public.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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