jsrobinson
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Posted : Jul 17, 2012 23:44:58
It dawned on me that a particular style of sound has been alluding me in learning synthesis.
Getting a gritty lead, or "squealing" screamer lead seems to come easy out of the synths I've used (Zebra, Vanguard), but what I'm really after is a more organic, squidgy, softer, rounded sound. Everything I create, and most of the presets I've found, seem to be either blippy atmospheres or screamer, squelchy sounds.
Take the opening lead @ minute 1:50 to this song, how can I begin to get close to this softer, organic, not so harsh sound? The whole song for that matter sounds organic and pleasing, and not like a squelch fest.
Most of the old goa I've heard has stuff like this that's not so chock full on the mechanical grit. Any advice from the synth sages? I'm not sure how to approach this.
Check minute 1:50 and 3:50 for examples. This soft organic, drippy stuff is what I'm after:
knocz
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Posted : Jul 18, 2012 01:18
I believe any 303 will do that type of sounds. Just tweak the filter and ressonance of a LP or BP filter after the 303.
those tracks use real 303s or 101s. they sound all soft and rubbery while having grit due to their beautiful analogue filter designs.. thats what the old rolands are all about (plus that plastic osci sound). put that through analogue distortion and an analogue mixing desk like back in the days and you have an organic as fuck sounding sweet sea of acid.
you can try to get there in software but it will be never "that" sound, but you can get close.
use d16 - phoscyson (303 emulation) for a start, and play with a saw patch and the included distortion.
much of the feeling, however, is coming from the musical arrangement as well, so do not forget to play a phrygian melody while searching for the sound you are after ;-)
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel "I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons
L66
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Posted : Jul 18, 2012 08:48
I believe it is all in the way you use automation combined with the patch, for example slower lfo's modulating cutoff + resonance. Just experiment with different synth's they all sound different.I don't believe you need analog synths to accomplish this.
http://soundcloud.com/multiv3rse
zero_the_hero
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Posted : Jul 18, 2012 11:18
You can also try to use a (emulation) of the Roland SH 101-
Simon P. is using it a lot of times...
Babaluma
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Posted : Jul 18, 2012 16:23
i know that track very well!
the lead at 1:50 sounds very gritty and distorted to me, just like a korg ms-20 filter when driven into self-oscillation. the sallen-key filter design with limiting diodes on the output gives that characteristic distorted screaming tone. the wiard borg2 can also get really close to this sound.
i think the softer arpeggio at 3:50 could be achieved with any nice filter. any old moog/arp/roland should be able to get extremely close to that. could possibly be a 101/202/303 with lower resonance setting.
jsrobinson
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Posted : Jul 20, 2012 00:05
Thanks all.
Babaluma, interesting reply as I know Simon used the MS-20 alot.
I've used Zebra a good bit and have done some basic checking out of Diva... do you think Diva really has advantages in this area over something like Zebra if I'm already getting used to that?
I have the MS-20 VST but getting used to the patch panel, and learning what it can really pull off for good goa/psy timbres has been slow going. I haven't found many decent presets, or tutorials, to study for the MS-20.
Babaluma
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Posted : Jul 20, 2012 01:01
I dunno about soft synths cos I've never used one. Zebra is the mono synth and Diva the poly, right? If so, for these type of sounds, I'd guess Zebra would be better.
It's going to be extremely difficult to accurately replicate the kind of chaotic instabilities of something like the MS-20 analogue filter as it approaches oscillation, not to mention the fact that there were two versions, one all discrete (earlier models), and one on a proprietary chip (the Korg 35 I think), which both sounded different. My old MS-20 was one of the earlier ones, and the closest thing I ever found to it was the Wiard Borg2 in 1200 series format, which could get even more screaming (but slightly less distorted/MS-20 like) if you removed the jumper for the limiting diodes on the output.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma
Great thread man! I was pondering this exact thing pretty much yesterday and even a little earlier today. Been listening to Hallucinogen's discography quite a bit lately and I know what you mean about that sound. I've heard Simon used the 101, K2000 and MS20 a lot but I still wonder about some of the sounds.
If I may, I'd like to expand on this a little in the hopes that perhaps somebody else will also benefit from this question and ask everybody what they think about using a real 101 vs. something like a x0xb0x vs. using software for these types of sounds?
It's been stated a little bit in here but I've been seriously considering purchasing another synth that can tackle these types of sounds and my search keeps leading me back to the 303 and the 101. I'd probably substitute a x0xb0x for a 303 since I don't wanna shell the cash for an actual 303 but in terms of the ability to make these sounds, where do you all stand? Is it worth it to go the hardware route for these specific things?(analog filters and such)
Nectarios
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Posted : Jul 20, 2012 10:31
It all depends on whether you want to spend the extra cash to get the x0xb0x and get as close to the 303 as two 303's come close to each other.
I can't speak for phoscyson as I am a mac user, but I can speak for the x0xb0x and its the best 600€ I've ever spend (got a custom job with some rare parts from Andy Pledger).
There is no good SH-101 emulation out there at the moment (that I know of) but the SH-101 is another workhorse in Simon's music and many more artists, from them years. It is a great sounding synth and generally speaking, if you like that sort of sound (some people don't), the best thing you can do, is get the same synths they had.
PoM
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Posted : Jul 20, 2012 14:45
i m not sure if there is any 303 in his tracks ? to me his acids sounds come out of synths but could be some 303 processed..
PoM
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Posted : Jul 20, 2012 14:50
Quote:
On 2012-07-20 00:05, jsrobinson wrote:
Thanks all.
Babaluma, interesting reply as I know Simon used the MS-20 alot.
I've used Zebra a good bit and have done some basic checking out of Diva... do you think Diva really has advantages in this area over something like Zebra if I'm already getting used to that?
I have the MS-20 VST but getting used to the patch panel, and learning what it can really pull off for good goa/psy timbres has been slow going. I haven't found many decent presets, or tutorials, to study for the MS-20.
definelety ,diva make some great acid sound . if you want digital kind of acid sound zebra is great, if you want the little charming orgnanic liquid thingy i think there is only diva in plugins that catch that
On 2012-07-20 10:31, Nectarios wrote:
It all depends on whether you want to spend the extra cash to get the x0xb0x and get as close to the 303 as two 303's come close to each other.
I can't speak for phoscyson as I am a mac user, but I can speak for the x0xb0x and its the best 600€ I've ever spend (got a custom job with some rare parts from Andy Pledger).
There is no good SH-101 emulation out there at the moment (that I know of) but the SH-101 is another workhorse in Simon's music and many more artists, from them years. It is a great sounding synth and generally speaking, if you like that sort of sound (some people don't), the best thing you can do, is get the same synths they had.
Peace out.
Thanks for the advice. Yeah, it seems to come back around to "if you want that sound, get the actual synth" but I don't know that I want to copy his sound exactly, I just like characteristics, especially the type that analog produces. Anyway, good food for thought, I appreciate your input.
@PoM I don't believe Simon used a 303 in Hallucinogen, I'm not totally sure but I think any 303ish sound would have been done on the 101.
Despite the fact that he probably didn't use a 303, I'm still quite attracted to that acid sound and none of the soft synths can do it quiet as squelchy as I desire. At least I haven't got them to yet.
If the x0xb0x is indeed as close as you (Nectarios) are saying, then perhaps it would be a wise investment because it just seems so hard to justify buying such an old piece of gear that could be very temperamental in terms of functionality for such a huge price.
