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Gems of compositional wisdom
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fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
982
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 18:34
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woah, this is exactly what i need  my song structure sucks donkey balls and it's really getting to me lately cuz i can't seem to get it right... I alwaays fuck up the flow and the energy levels in my music. If you listen to the climactic parts seperately it's okay, but i fuck up the energy so bad that i simply fuck up my climaxes all the time, and my music sounds bland and flat... It's really surprising how important structure is to make your music sound good... I certainly hope this will solve my problem... |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 03:21
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FREGLE - believe me, its getting to me aswell..
but i found that my main problem is that i never get out of the "sound tweaking stage"
i often dont have a idea of what i should automate, or what is finished and ready to be used, so i cant export to audio... when i create on headphones i think like this, no ill wait with exporting this sound till i can hear it in the speakers so i dont have to go back and redo it... thats also something that hinders me...
too much thinking about the quality, instead of thinking about the feeling i want to pursue... i mean i could easily go back and re-export a piece if its some minor tweaking that has to be done...
so
i think its very important to say, okej now i have the basic pieces, now its time to think about how i want them to flow... not to think, now i have the basic pieces, but lets get a bigger picture before i export and start to build...
knowing when to stop tweaking and not is probably my biggest issue...
i think a good thing for me would be to limit my self, to just use a small set of sounds and make the most out of them.... cause when i have too many pieces i cant find away for them to melt together... or maybe i can but my mind gets blocked cause i dont know in which end to begin.. probably there are some pieces that i made just to fill a room and im getting too subjective about them and dont know if i like them or not, so i cant continue.
And sometimes when i have a good set of pieces i cant find new pieces to fit with them and carry the track further... maybe im looking too much outside the box instead of seeing the possibilities in what i have... probably too little experience in music creation.
does anyone have a idea to work, is it a good way to make like a 16 or 32 bar sequence, export it and build it with the audio pieces, and continue like this?
cause i find sometimes i take water over my head and find that i have no place in the track where im finished...
or i have a place in the track where im happy, but im just to confused cause the project is not organized enough to export and move on...sometimes too much Fx on midi parts which makes the process of exporting and make things loop so much harder..
and when i have things organized i start to export and what i see is a mix of midi and audio, with audio parts that really would need to be automatized from the synth/sampler from the begining...
all this shit makes my brain itch sometimes.. lol
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dtd
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
490
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 12:55
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New Era Scientist, interesting post from you! i want to say something about this 'workflow' problem (if i understood you correctly)
i think one of the bigger challenges for electronic music writers/producers is, not to get too deep into production stage when being in _writing_ stage of the song. your brain has two halves, one of them which is full of ideas coming up with new things, this is used when brainstorming. your other half of the brain always judges the ideas, and, if you don't watch, it destroys many ideas by "saying" too soon: 'this can't work.'. so when you _write_ music it sometimes is best to forget about production and rendering to audio for processing etc. i just write lines and try things out, without starting to bounce lanes and processing everything to clarity. this is because i think if you do this, you interrupt your flow of coming up with good ideas. but of course, some 'production stage' stuff somtimes needs to be done early. i usually try to make a good fundament of bass/kick such that it is fun to jam over it
hm i hope this post was not too weirdo all the best to you, and a nice weekend! |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 13:49
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Dtd, i totally agree with you about the two processes: creativity and techinicality. I'm an autistic kind of guy who tends to spend more time tweaking basses than writing music. I have to force myself to (almost) not use the mixer when i'm writing. Another trick that i found helpful was making mixdowns of you basic kick&bass (1 or 2 bars), of a open hihat (1 or 2 bars), a closed hihat (1 or 2 bars), claps (1 or 2 bars), melodies (1 or 2 bars) etc. and use these pieces as Lego(tm) building blocks to make a rough draft of the energy buildup of the track. Then when you're finished you have the outline of the track and you can start to replace the individual parts with more interesting versions with modulations, variations and automations add swooshes, stabs and atmosphere. For me this helps a lot because nothing is so daunting to me as an empty project window in which you have to build an entire track.
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 21:17
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i think have a good workflow and i find arranging easy (humble opinion) so i will share... hope i can help...
first i open orion and start either playing with a synth or making a melody (or both). i do this for ages until i have the idea of a track done... tweaking here is only for notes now that i have the idea (which is like some melodys, the synth patches, the parts of the track, the concept, etc) i open cubase, import the midi files, add the synths and everything.
i now add the kick, bassline and percursion, make a 2/4 bar loop and tweak them to death. after they are done i start arranging the track starting from the begining to the end, adding all the automations, FX (like sweeps) can be done now or in the end, it varies. i try to arrange as fast as possible making it natural. this is just building up the idea you have saved and imported. when i finish it (takes a week or less) i stop listening to it for a day. when i listen to it again i take note of what i like and don't like (caring only about the building). dancing to your track can help... note that the first listen is important !
now i correct everything i don't like... this i like to take more time, producing only once in a while so i don't get too used to the track. being slow is good here
when i think it's perfect (and i mean perfect) it's time for the big boring phase... the mixing ! i start by bouncing the kick, bass and percursion and importing it (my CPU is on heaven now lol). now i process everything (oh i forgot to say... i add no plugins except quick EQ to all elements during arrangement... this is distraction) one by one. playing together what plays together, everything ! boucing when the CPU cries for it (which is all the time in my 1000mhz) until i think it's perfect (i confess... most of the times is when i'm tired to death and want to show the track to my friends). now i exporting every channel to wav and import them back in a new project.
now i play with the faders and the panning... this is so much nicer to do with your CPU free. i may add some EQ here but it's rare. done? still in the same project i open the master channel and do some pseudo mastering so i can play it in traktor more easyly.
phew done writting. this is my way. makes me finish tracks pretty quickly and i like them musicaly speaking (so do my friends). my problem is sound quality... it's too hard to mix with a computer like this, speakers like this and having always someone at home (my house is not really big... even when i'm playing music really low there's always someone complaining) but soon this will be past hehehe...
hope i helped someone out there. sorry for the testament. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 03:56
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hello guys! sorry im a bit late in saying thanks to you all...
you have been great help, i have actually been here and figure out something good to say... but when i came here i went back to my sequencer cause your words has really inspired me...
dtd - your words are true and i try to think about what you said.. very nice, i really appreciate it.
Boobytrip - i think we have almost the same autistic bendings... so your ideas inspired me aswell, im thinking about the lego and i think its a interesting way to work!
what i can find daunting is to go back and rewrite things... also i tend to do too much lego for my own good, meaning that i export too many pieces and end up being confused.
so i found that jamming to a stable foundation and add things piece by piece as i go on is a good method for me...but still i need to rein my self sometimes and not get cought in doing things too fast.. to have a context and so on..
e-motion - thank you for some insight in your way of working... it makes sense and i find things in your methods that i can use...
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I guess there are as many different ways to work as there are humans, or something like that
to divide creation into separate stages seems to be a good way to work and i guess i havent been doing that so much....
i would love for this topic to continue and i will ponder it and if i get some new insights i will share them with you...
great stuff guys! thanks again for inspiring me  |
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