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full on beats evolution?
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 01:15
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at the festivals this year i've heard some fullon that takes elements from minimal/electro. with a pattern like k-b- k-b- kbbb k--- throughout the whole track. the other elements were the usual fullon sounds. i hope it doesn't catch on. i'm no fan of kbbb but i find the k--- in that pattern to completely kill the flow.
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| the KBBB thing is what gets us in the trance state of mind |
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are you serious? i find gated pads, 1/16-acidlines and even k-b- much more trance-inducing...
actually fullon is one of the least trance-inducing genres of edm i know. |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 03:17
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minddoctorsmakeacid
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
74
Posts :
577
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 03:59
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On 2010-07-12 18:24, PoM wrote:
xoC nice tracks man i will check the bass when i m on proper speaker.
i was experimentating and find nothing great...except production wise, spliting the bass into 2 bands can work great, it seems to be cleaner than dealing with notche to remove bad freqs and to get that middle scooped sound.i gave it a quick try with a low band from 40 to 100 hz then used a - 12 db low shelve at around 800 hz for the medium/high band, no more crap and bad freqs ,resonance,ringing... then i mixed well the volume of both ,left the low end almost unprocessed just a bit of equing and experimented with the medium high bands with a bit of cliping/saturation to try to make the attacks stronger then i limited both band in a third bus.i never experimented with spliting sounds into few bands and process them with different chain it seems it can really work nicely ,give it a try !
it can sound more natural cause it gives more control ,you can eq, then mix level of the 2 bassline bands, things like that,it seems more easy to get a clean sound
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Wow....
Great technique.
I just had a go at it using a fat synth for the low and a clean digital one for the mid and it works like a charm.
Never had so much control and such a beautifull powerfull clean bass sound b4.
Thanks a lot, I've thought about this but was allways lasy and though it wasn't worth a try, but was wrong.
I've also tried with the kick but thats a common technique, I found 3 diferent kicks one winch I like its low, another the mid and another the hi, and blend them thogether with the same thecnique to mach the 2 band bass worked lovelly... |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 08:49
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 15:53
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On 2010-07-13 03:59, minddoctorsmakeacid wrote:
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On 2010-07-12 18:24, PoM wrote:
xoC nice tracks man i will check the bass when i m on proper speaker.
i was experimentating and find nothing great...except production wise, spliting the bass into 2 bands can work great, it seems to be cleaner than dealing with notche to remove bad freqs and to get that middle scooped sound.i gave it a quick try with a low band from 40 to 100 hz then used a - 12 db low shelve at around 800 hz for the medium/high band, no more crap and bad freqs ,resonance,ringing... then i mixed well the volume of both ,left the low end almost unprocessed just a bit of equing and experimented with the medium high bands with a bit of cliping/saturation to try to make the attacks stronger then i limited both band in a third bus.i never experimented with spliting sounds into few bands and process them with different chain it seems it can really work nicely ,give it a try !
it can sound more natural cause it gives more control ,you can eq, then mix level of the 2 bassline bands, things like that,it seems more easy to get a clean sound
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Wow....
Great technique.
I just had a go at it using a fat synth for the low and a clean digital one for the mid and it works like a charm.
Never had so much control and such a beautifull powerfull clean bass sound b4.
Thanks a lot, I've thought about this but was allways lasy and though it wasn't worth a try, but was wrong.
I've also tried with the kick but thats a common technique, I found 3 diferent kicks one winch I like its low, another the mid and another the hi, and blend them thogether with the same thecnique to mach the 2 band bass worked lovelly...
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so you used 2 differents synths for the bass? with 2 bassline patchs?it could make sense to try with a triangle or even sine wav for the low band maybe it would work,also sometimes a stereo sound for the medium / high layer work nice but i find it can sound too much electro /pop trance , i was thinking to try that with a detuned/unisson kind of patch with maybe filter movment,distortion might remove that electro cheesy feel ,would sound a bit like a dnb dirty sound.
yesterday i used just one synth and split the sound into 2 bands with shelve filter its a bit like layering on top it can sound huge,it s maybe more easy than using 2 different synths but it sound more like a regular bassline but a clean one wihtout the trouble of dealing with lot of notchs and scooping the mediums ,you do all that with shelve in less than 2 minutes + you get a lot more control over the balance of the sound with the bands levels
about the phase i think it s exactly what make the sound have more depth when you find sweet spots and it was easy to get a clean sound compared as using few notchs that fuck even more the sound it seems , also for the bands shleve might work better than hp/lp like a tradiontal multiband plugins, you have way more control with the q too and it s cleaner |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 16:30
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On 2010-07-13 03:59, minddoctorsmakeacid wrote:
I've also tried with the kick but thats a common technique, I found 3 diferent kicks one winch I like its low, another the mid and another the hi, and blend them thogether with the same thecnique to mach the 2 band bass worked lovelly...
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i tried something else with the kick, i separate it into 2 bands same as the bass, mixed well the 2 bands in level and eq , then i mixed the unsplited kick with these 2 bands in a third bus where i equed all that, it can work nice but not sure it worth it have to try again, but these tehcnics really give you more control to get a clean and huge sound, i think when you do all that you find sweet spots with phase shift and it help to make the sound have more depth, it s same as when layering drums ,phase realtionship ,cancellation ,sweet spots make some magic happen |
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 16:40
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for music (any) to be psychedelic or trance inducing must have two elements a repeating rythm structure and more chaotic and surprising elements on top of it.
if everything is expected and unoriginal like in most of modern fullon it cant be trance inducing, when the element of surprise is lost.
 www.soundcloud.com/elektroakustica/sets/downtempo/ |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 16:47
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yes you re right and the elements of surpsie are lost in lot of tracks for kick and bassline ,that why i get bored of it, nothing suprise me in full on but maybe i should try to find some new artists to listen too dunno ...but thats a reason why i started this thread ,to what new we could bring to these standart kbbb full on kick/bassline and other drums too. |
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minddoctorsmakeacid
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
74
Posts :
577
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 16:57
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On 2010-07-13 15:53, PoM wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-07-13 03:59, minddoctorsmakeacid wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-07-12 18:24, PoM wrote:
xoC nice tracks man i will check the bass when i m on proper speaker.
i was experimentating and find nothing great...except production wise, spliting the bass into 2 bands can work great, it seems to be cleaner than dealing with notche to remove bad freqs and to get that middle scooped sound.i gave it a quick try with a low band from 40 to 100 hz then used a - 12 db low shelve at around 800 hz for the medium/high band, no more crap and bad freqs ,resonance,ringing... then i mixed well the volume of both ,left the low end almost unprocessed just a bit of equing and experimented with the medium high bands with a bit of cliping/saturation to try to make the attacks stronger then i limited both band in a third bus.i never experimented with spliting sounds into few bands and process them with different chain it seems it can really work nicely ,give it a try !
it can sound more natural cause it gives more control ,you can eq, then mix level of the 2 bassline bands, things like that,it seems more easy to get a clean sound
|
|
Wow....
Great technique.
I just had a go at it using a fat synth for the low and a clean digital one for the mid and it works like a charm.
Never had so much control and such a beautifull powerfull clean bass sound b4.
Thanks a lot, I've thought about this but was allways lasy and though it wasn't worth a try, but was wrong.
I've also tried with the kick but thats a common technique, I found 3 diferent kicks one winch I like its low, another the mid and another the hi, and blend them thogether with the same thecnique to mach the 2 band bass worked lovelly...
|
|
so you used 2 differents synths for the bass? with 2 bassline patchs?it could make sense to try with a triangle or even sine wav for the low band maybe it would work,also sometimes a stereo sound for the medium / high layer work nice but i find it can sound too much electro /pop trance , i was thinking to try that with a detuned/unisson kind of patch with maybe filter movment,distortion might remove that electro cheesy feel ,would sound a bit like a dnb dirty sound.
yesterday i used just one synth and split the sound into 2 bands with shelve filter its a bit like layering on top it can sound huge,it s maybe more easy than using 2 different synths but it sound more like a regular bassline but a clean one wihtout the trouble of dealing with lot of notchs and scooping the mediums ,you do all that with shelve in less than 2 minutes + you get a lot more control over the balance of the sound with the bands levels
about the phase i think it s exactly what make the sound have more depth when you find sweet spots and it was easy to get a clean sound compared as using few notchs that fuck even more the sound it seems , also for the bands shleve might work better than hp/lp like a tradiontal multiband plugins, you have way more control with the q too and it s cleaner
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The only reason I've tryed 2 synths (And the patches on both where very similar, 1 simple saw with little distortion and short decay with a bit os sustain) is because I own 2 hardware synths, one is fat and dirty and very warm in the low end(TETR4) and the other is clean and shyning on the mid and hi (KS Rack).
What one can achieve the other one lacks.
Togheter they sound great.
Sounds good what you made withh the kick, I've been analisyng tracks from Azax Syndrome, Abomination, Switch and others and the frequencies that their kick drums cover must have been subjected to a very similar technique.
Most of these kicks I've analised had a peak that covered 65hz to 100hz and then went donw in the spectrum. And the funny thing is that their bass was peaking on 55hz and 110hz.
So the kick was covering everything in between.
I've been tunning my kick drums to the lowest frequency of my root note (in G: kick at 48hz bass harmonics: 48hz and 98hz) for years and now I've found that these guys use it between the first 2 harmonics of the bass.
Maybe thats why their kick bass combo sounds so powerfull.
It has its own space in the spectrum.
I've tryed this technique last night and it works like a charm.
Ok a bit of topic here but I thought I should mention it. |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Jul 13, 2010 22:31
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Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
Posts :
1516
Posted : Jul 14, 2010 14:05
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On 2010-07-13 22:31, Padmapani wrote:
@Shiranui
both are trance-inducing, but both aren't fullon and the first track isn't even kbbb.
listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC0_tkbw-c
kbbb, but not trance-inducing.
i've not said that tracks with kbbb can't be trance-inducing, but rather that kbbb isn't the main element to make a track trance-inducing. that needs a certain monotony and subtlety, which most current fullon with it's breakdown->build->(another build*x->)->"IN YOUR FACE (cheesy) MELODY" formula certainly lacks.
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+1
Couldn't say it any better , in fact i think , that after years of parties , u know trance very well , so u have to trust the guy behind the decks,machines or whatever , it takes about 2 or 3 tracks to see what is going to do , sometimes less if the man is really good  . Some of mine more trance induced experiences came from that simple K-B-K from the early progressive years around 2000/2001, it seems nobody has time anymore to make a dance floor progress , slowly building up , it's more:
I WANT FISTS IN THE AIR, AND I WANT IT KNOW!
Sorry if it seemed kinda off topic
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