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full on beats evolution?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 11, 2010 22:50:23
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what do you think will be the next big thing in full on beats?just something i was wondering as i m getting really tired of these sine kick used and kbbb saw bassline.
there s some innovation but more into the commercial sound than the rebellion and dirty vibes from what i heard and it s about that sound i wanna talk.
what could replace that kbbb thing and be as effective on the trancefloor ?thats the question i m wondering.
i was thinking to layering and resampling as these technics are not much used yet in psytrance and could open new doors (it s used but more in the commercial stuff like i said above )
also the closest style to psy with the way it make me dance and getting high in trance is dark twisted dnb so i was thinking to a mix of these but it would still need a 4 on the floor kick drum but with a dnb kind of bassline ,nasty ,distorted with some wobbles maybe
what do you think? |
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demoniac
Demoniac Insomniac
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85
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1281
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 02:19
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minddoctorsmakeacid
IsraTrance Full Member
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74
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 02:58
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On 2010-07-12 02:19, demoniac wrote:
already done
furious
insector
maybe more but this 2 guys are the best
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Mate, I've checked those artists out and all I could listen to was Dark Psy, I think PoM was was talking about a new kind of Full On.
Its a bit hard to get away from the kbbb pattern coz that is what makes us go into a trance state of mind, I don't know how the hippies did it in the 60ths with psychedelic rock but I have a dam good guess (Acid) or maybe not just that.
Psychedelic lead sounds makes you trip but not dance, that Kbbb along with the percussion is what makes us start wobling and end up dancing.
I wouldn't say 4 to the floor is realy necessary but the bass going bbbb is.
We could tri sine waves or triangular ones for the bass but that clipping sound from saw feels so good in our brains that I really dont know if it will work, maybe with leads following the bass to compliment those frequencies.
Anyway, experimentation is the key. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 03:17
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Quote:
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On 2010-07-12 02:19, demoniac wrote:
already done
furious
insector
maybe more but this 2 guys are the best
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thanks man for the names i will check but i was talking more about full on but what work in dark psy could work in full on too |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 03:47
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On 2010-07-12 02:58, minddoctorsmakeacid
Its a bit hard to get away from the kbbb pattern coz that is what makes us go into a trance state of mind, I don't know how the hippies did it in the 60ths with psychedelic rock but I have a dam good guess (Acid) or maybe not just that.
Psychedelic lead sounds makes you trip but not dance, that Kbbb along with the percussion is what makes us start wobling and end up dancing.
I wouldn't say 4 to the floor is realy necessary but the bass going bbbb is.
We could tri sine waves or triangular ones for the bass but that clipping sound from saw feels so good in our brains that I really dont know if it will work, maybe with leads following the bass to compliment those frequencies.
Anyway, experimentation is the key.
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about experimentation i m sure something good could come out using the production technics they use in dnb but i have no clue how they do these amazing dirty sounds, gonna experiment with that... trying to split my bassline into 3 bands and process them differently, sample and do that again maybe it will end in something intressting |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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120
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 12:33
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haha, im waiting for your bassline^^
but in the end... everything exists, i mean... taking out some notes exists, lowering bpm and take out some notes = electro use much sidechaining and house is here...
splitting your bassline in 3 band will not "work" well i think because you will not notice the high freqs.
and lets say you use a sine for subs and square for mids... this is common, because you will not really notice the subs as a waveform^^ so its a simple square bassline.
sweeps are very cool for basslines (ala eskimo), it makes the sound intresting but allrdy exists.
as soon as you change to much in the psy genre it isnt psy anymore, or its a electro/psy track.
i think more important are the leads or effects 
but i can feel what your thinking hehe
cheers
 www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Scolopendra
Started Topics :
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64
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 12:42
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As mensioned above, the KBBB thing is what gets us in the trance state of mind. It's the hypnotizing drone in the bottom. Similar to the swing rhythm in jazz, it's kind of a trademark for the genre. My belief is that this derives from tribal drumming in the ancient times, that it's something hypnotizing with the 4-to-d-floor with all the 16ths marked in between.
The thing is, you can variate quite a lot with the use of different rhytmic groupings to get a different feel and flow to the track. And of course, you could change the time signature to maybe 6/4 or 12/8, I've heard a lot of hypnotic patterns/beat in these signatures in african traditional etc. you get the point. I have to go so i'll come back and write more later |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 14:25
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thanks for advice guys give me some ideas...orgy you re right about the electro psy, soemtimes it s innovative but it make the sound just more comercial and i dont like that much.
but i m sure one day someone will come up with a new bassline and we all gonna copy it ,it can stay like that for age
Scolopendra do you mean change the time signature just for some percussions for example and not the kick bass? if someone know more about this i have heard it s a technic used in african tribute when they play percussion and maybe in many other genre of music |
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Scolopendra
Started Topics :
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64
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 15:22
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I mean change the time signature of the track. A lot of southern African traditional music uses 12/8 with different rhythmic groupings, and often odd accents which you can put into leads, stabs or percussion for example. It's really cool, and can give a feel and flow to a track, but still maintain the drone/hypnotizing effect. Give it a shot!:)
With the percussion (leads or whatever you like) you can ex. try patterns that stretches over 2 and a half bar or 3 bars and 1 beat, if you know what I mean? Or patterns that accentuates odd beats in the measure. If you play around with it I believe you can achieve some interesting grooves=)
And of course you could try to do stuff without the KBBB pattern.. Make a melodic bassline? But personally I think that's hard when the tempo's are too high! =)
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 15:57
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check on my myspace the track "Dr. 2C" it 2 basslines at the same time, quite different from the usual saw kbbb
www.myspace.com/cubicspline |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 12, 2010 18:24
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xoC nice tracks man i will check the bass when i m on proper speaker.
i was experimentating and find nothing great...except production wise, spliting the bass into 2 bands can work great, it seems to be cleaner than dealing with notche to remove bad freqs and to get that middle scooped sound.i gave it a quick try with a low band from 40 to 100 hz then used a - 12 db low shelve at around 800 hz for the medium/high band, no more crap and bad freqs ,resonance,ringing... then i mixed well the volume of both ,left the low end almost unprocessed just a bit of equing and experimented with the medium high bands with a bit of cliping/saturation to try to make the attacks stronger then i limited both band in a third bus.i never experimented with spliting sounds into few bands and process them with different chain it seems it can really work nicely ,give it a try !
it can sound more natural cause it gives more control ,you can eq, then mix level of the 2 bassline bands, things like that,it seems more easy to get a clean sound |
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
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179
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 18:55
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A little maths :
imagine a square wave of frequency "f"
It is composed of the fondamental f and of the odd harmonics : ie : f, 3f, 5f, 7f, 9f, 11f etc.
what is missing? 2f, 4f, 6f, 8f, 10f etc. and what is that? the harmonic serie of a sawtooth of frequency "2f"
So Square at octave 0 + (adjust with the right amount in db) saw at octave 1 = saw at octave 0 (if you retrigger the osc, it will give a perfect saw if the 2 synths are really in sync)
so what is the goal? you can now control your bassline in two bands, but not like a crossover, more like 2 combs filters completing each others.
In Dr. 2C, the square wave is @F0 playing a rooling, while a quasi saw wave @F1 is playing a more slowly and groovy pattern. Listen when the saw bassline comes in, it reconstruct all the harmonics of the F0 Saw, and gives the effect of body to the square wave rooling bass.
sry for my poor english |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
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321
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 19:01
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On 2010-07-11 22:50:23, PoM wrote:
what do you think will be the next big thing in full on beats?just something i was wondering as i m getting really tired of these sine kick used and kbbb saw bassline.
there s some innovation but more into the commercial sound than the rebellion and dirty vibes from what i heard and it s about that sound i wanna talk.
what could replace that kbbb thing and be as effective on the trancefloor ?thats the question i m wondering.
i was thinking to layering and resampling as these technics are not much used yet in psytrance and could open new doors (it s used but more in the commercial stuff like i said above )
also the closest style to psy with the way it make me dance and getting high in trance is dark twisted dnb so i was thinking to a mix of these but it would still need a 4 on the floor kick drum but with a dnb kind of bassline ,nasty ,distorted with some wobbles maybe
what do you think?
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Well, what was the previous 'big thing' in full on beats? AFAIK k-b-, k-bb and kbbb have been how psytrance has been written since its inception. It defines the genre, so if you're making something with a different low end then its just some different music, why do we feel a need to squeeze it into the psytrance genre?
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
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3642
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 19:06
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Why not just make new music and not bother with genreing if you really want to create something new?
Find something in your head and put it into the computer, then go from there. Everyone moves in a unique way, so find what moves you and it'll be unique. Maybe what moves you is formulaic fullon, maybe it's something else, only 1 way to find out .
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
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483
Posted : Jul 12, 2010 22:32
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Theres many ways to create a trance. When I am on LSD or other hallucinogens I prefer downtempo as opposed to trance or dance music. You can make downtempo danceable as well. Listen to slackbaba its downtempo but the beats are double timed. Production quality A++, engeineering A++, composition A++. And listen to his trademark bass made with logics es1. Nice and fat but crunchy at all just subby.
http://www.youtube.com/user/trawhi (tutorials)
http://www.myspace.com/eusidmusic |
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