| Author
|
front and back
|
Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:17:38
|
guys,
im trying to bring a pad to the background and a lead to the front on top of it!
what is your method of doing so?
thanks!
  saii.rave.ca |
|
|
|
D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:21
|
|
Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:29
|
hahahahah!
M/S all over the place...
i understand but im sure there is an easier way other than that...or if you could care to explain how to do it exactly in ableton live?
or im sure there is plugin that is like the stereo expanders like the nugen ones that make it sound further left and right..but im looking for front and back now !  lol
cheers guys
saii.rave.ca |
|
|
|
Perplexion
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
7
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:40
|
you could just do some stereo enhancement on the pad, small amount of reverb (big room, more wet than dry) and low volume.
more volume for the lead and little bit of reverb (small room).
you can also think about sidechaining.. |
|
|
|
D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:49
|
for ableton just use the utility function. here is link where you can read and download even a ready made effects rack in .ADJ format which uses ableton Utility so that you can decode encode the L/R into M/S.
if you use ableton you should be familiar.
the link for the rack:
http://www.minzmusic.net/blog/archive/2008/12/29/midside_processing_in_ableton_
so, on the background sound, you can start playing with reverbs but at the end of the chain just drag-drop the above .ADJ rack. and you will hear how the sound improves. For the front sound use the old old oooooold stereo technique of duplicating and delaying a bit one of the channels or just use a plugin made for this. Voxengo stereo touch (free one) MDA-Stereo (free one) or maybe even the elevatya Wider-Boy which is also great one. and again put at the end of the chain the MS Rack. the MS is just for Improving the stereo and especially in those cases, where we have stereo widening and also we have reverbs.
Of course nobody can oblige you of using M/S but it will glue much better the sounds and it will give em incredible space and front/back feeling.
and man.. remember, sometimes the simplest things need years to understand...
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
|
|
|
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 17:53
|
|
shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 19:09
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-06-03 17:53, disco hooligans wrote:
volume and reverb send automation will do the trick. nice and simple.
|
|
yeah, i'm surprised this wasn't the first thing mentioned and right away the conversation went to stereo enhancers and M/S. to make the sound seem to be more in the background you can:
1) turn its volume down
2) put a reverb on it
3) cut some higher frequencies
i would start there and after you exhausted all the possibilities these 3 provide, then start looking into the other methods.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
|
|
|
D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 19:18
|
as i said. m/s will not make nothing...
but it will sharpen the sound. because it is not just putting back one sinth and bringing another to the front. if you make a track with just 2 sounds (back and front) maybe it works. but if you are doing a complete trak, where there are snares, percussion, kiks, basslines, fx, bla bla.. just using a reverb and a volume is not enough... i mean I want to bring a sound to the background yet it must be present, right? and not just bringing down its volume and muding it with a reverb which will practically disappear it between everything else... (especially the reverbs in low volume...)
M/S will sharpen everything mentioned above. it will sharpen the back, yet it will stay in back But without disapearring... (becasue of everything else)
anyway. i understand the M/S is another level of production. if you dont understand just skip and nevermind my posts.
easy.
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
|
|
|
Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 19:22
|
septa and oxidelic...you both have it down!
u are both right
if some one were to put it all together and do both those techniques then we are set!
thanks again guys this is more than i wanted!
saii.rave.ca |
|
|
|
shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 21:21
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-06-03 19:18, D-Alien wrote:
anyway. i understand the M/S is another level of production. if you dont understand just skip and nevermind my posts.
easy.
|
|
oh, i understand the concept. i will admit that i haven't experimented with this and thanks to collin's explanations and your post, i really want to play around with this now. however, based on my understanding of it, M/S processing is more about placing things in the stereo field or keeping things clear by processing only the stereo data, while keeping the core of the sound solid. it might or might not help the dude out. we can't say that for sure because we haven't heard the track and don't know what else is going on there. possibly, it will further sharpen the sounds, but he needs to sort out his 3D positioning before that anyway.
what seemed strange to me with these answers is kind of along the same lines of automatically recommending someone to use a compressor on their bass when they are complaining of the lack of click/attack (how about going to your filter envelope first?). you know what i mean?
but thanks anyway for your links and posts on M/S processing. definitely piqued my interest even more.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
|
|
|
jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1493
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 22:23
|
saai hehehe M/S YES ALL OVER THE PLACE why because is a real incredable way of mixing.
here what i would do id put AudioDamges Fluid or the other one on the pad 100%.
|
|
|
|
ganjerific
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
19
Posted : Jun 3, 2009 23:37
|
Think X,Y and Z plane and it's very easy, then follow the above advice on volume panning eq and reverb  think about it visiually just like 3ds max or Maya really.
|
|
|
|
gutter
Inactive User
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
3018
Posted : Jun 4, 2009 10:49
|
set your sends to pre fader and mix the effect with the dry signal, put a high pass and a low shelf EQ on your reverb track and boost the mids just a bit if needed.
what is all this M/S mess about really? ive seen that only on mastering process, if the mastering engineer needs to work different on the stereo signal to the mono, in example needs to compress guitars but not the voice which is at the center etc
|
|
|
|
cyclone
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
101
Posted : Jun 4, 2009 15:22
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-06-03 17:53, disco hooligans wrote:
volume and reverb send automation will do the trick. nice and simple.
|
|
How do u use the send automation?i mean you automate open to close or the opposite?
thank u!!! |
|
|
|
jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1493
Posted : Jun 4, 2009 16:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-06-04 10:49, gutter wrote:
set your sends to pre fader and mix the effect with the dry signal, put a high pass and a low shelf EQ on your reverb track and boost the mids just a bit if needed.
what is all this M/S mess about really? ive seen that only on mastering process, if the mastering engineer needs to work different on the stereo signal to the mono, in example needs to compress guitars but not the voice which is at the center etc
|
|
 Ignorance Iz bliss. hey mate u should be your own Engineer.. what ever makes it sound good in my opinion. advice that works is what i love most. you either accept it or u dont mate.  hehehe |
|
|
|
