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frequencys in psytrance
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
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236
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6106
Posted : Jan 14, 2006 16:56
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On 2005-12-09 00:10, icodon wrote:
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On 2005-12-08 20:31, Kire-naj wrote:
...I want something for the mind, i want a psychedelic journey without rules. I want to be suprised, amazed and stunned. I want to be moved.. I want a story and/or a fairytale. I dont want to be smudged in the face with sounds that are "supposed" to be cool. I dont want to listen to remakes of old "euro-trance" tracks (to me, most full-on is just that, a hyper modern and cool version of "euro-trance" - Come on, cant you see the link?.) I want a original/psychedelic story teller, a derenger taking me on a ride...
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I could suggest you a great tea....I would call it "high frequencie tea"...you drink and you will find what you are looking for....
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I'm drinking your tea now. Let's explore.
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Frequencysm
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12
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 01:17
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Can anyone explain me something?
Let's say you have bass, playing c2 ~ 60 hz.
What i know for shure is that no sound can have anything under the main harmonic. So why i hear my bass go thiner and thiner when i make a 40 hz low cut?
 http://label.psygarden.org/ |
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diskOtek
Entek
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70
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953
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 01:28
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what do you mean by "main harmonic"?
40hz is too low IMO!
have you checked your monitors' freq rate?
if its 40-50hz lowest,then maybe this is the prob.
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symbiote
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24
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 01:38
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On 2006-02-01 01:17, Frequencysm wrote:
What i know for shure is that no sound can have anything under the main harmonic. So why i hear my bass go thiner and thiner when i make a 40 hz low cut?
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suboscillator? |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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3709
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 01:50
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Cannabis
IsraTrance Junior Member
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246
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 02:58
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IMHO
Well higher baselines sound also good, if accompanied with a kick with a long low freq tail to make up for, and it sounds delicious as well.
You need the LOW. One way or another. Either one of above methodes sounds different, but I love both. I call them Low distinct Low-Harmonics 
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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803
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 11:47
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- Frequencysm
a bandpass filter(or any filter for that matter) works on the whole signal spectrum, not just parts of it, so every part of the spectrum is affected (however negligently) in level & phase, the deciding factor between whether one filter tuned for one frequency affects another frequency noticeably is how far the frequencies are apart. a 40 hz cut will definitely affect a 60hz signal. even a bandpass filter with a high Q(needle thin affect zone) will affect all frequencies in a spectrum, whether in phase or power, more noticeably closer to its tuned freuency.
Filters work logarithmically with an associated "rolloff" of effect per octave(doubling of frequency).If I remember correctly a single pole lowpass filter has a rolloff of 6db per octave, which means (theoretically) if tuned at 1 khz, the 1khz signal will pass through quasi unmodified, the 2 khz signal will be 6db's down(i.e. half the volume) & the 4khz signal will be half of a half, i.e. quarter volume.
if u use a higher order/pole filter u will get higher rolloffs but will distort the phase more.Just physics really.
Advice? u have to tune ur low shelf for a trade off so that ur bass still sounds ok & u dont get "too much" rumble from low frequencies.  |
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Frequencysm
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Posted : Feb 1, 2006 15:20
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Well i did some "researches" and here is what i found:
here is a pure sine tone, he has nothing under or over his main and only frequency.
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2307/sine4ls.jpg
I thought that it can be the analyser bug, so it shows something beneath that not exist, but as it is shown on picture that is not the cse, the analyser works just fine.
Here is a same note played by vb-1:
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4323/vb19oh.jpg
Red line shows the peak, that was made when the tone had started, and the yellow one shows same tone but a second later when that punch in the beggining has passed.
I know about undertones and overtones, undertones are heard becous our cohlea has some bug, but this is not what i hear, this shows the analyser.
Now you can supose what you will get when gou go for that KbbbKbbb:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3757/tgggdggg6xl.jpg
you have all those unwanted frequencys all the time in your spectrum, and all unwanted effects are produced at the beginning of the note (like single shot's (drums) has all the frequencys?). As much as upper harmonics are wanted becous of the colour of the sound, the "under" harmonic coused bu the punch on the beginnig of the note are unwanted, as far as i know they should not even be there cous they are lower than the mean frequency ~60 hz, so can someone exoplain me what the hell is going on?
Is that a "bug" of a sowtware or it must happen on all instruments (hard and soft?) or it happends only on software becouse of a lousy oscilators?
http://label.psygarden.org/ |
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symbiote
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24
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:00
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i don't know vb-1, but i doubt it uses a pure sine tone to generate bass. if you don't want the transients to be there, you can remove them by tweaking the envelopes a bit. things might sound a little flat with no transients though =P like i said (however briefly) though, if you have a suboscillator running on that vb-1 thing, it'll oscillate a whole octave below you base note, which would explain the presence of lower harmonics better than transients. |
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Frequencysm
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12
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:45
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Thaks a lot man! I made a whole mess whit this question and it has a simple explanation
Transient is the thing that confuses me. Now its clear.
A transient is a short-duration signal that represents a nonharmonic attack phase of a musical sound or spoken word. It contains a high degree of nonperiodic components and a higher magnitude of high frequencies than the harmonic content of that sound. Transients do not directly depend on the frequency of the tone they initiate.
http://label.psygarden.org/ |
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texmex
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5
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189
Posted : Feb 4, 2006 04:59
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On 2006-02-01 01:17, Frequencysm wrote:
Can anyone explain me something?
Let's say you have bass, playing c2 ~ 60 hz.
What i know for shure is that no sound can have anything under the main harmonic. So why i hear my bass go thiner and thiner when i make a 40 hz low cut?
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cutoff at 40hz doesn't necessarily mean that the rolloff begins exactly at 40hz, it can begin even at 60hz as bukboy said. Depends on the eq/filter used.
You can find the effect of the filter by first driving white noise to PAZ for reference and then driving it thru the filter to PAZ. Pure whitenoise should be somewhat flat on frequency response...
Maybe there is some suboscillation. may happen because of FM, aliasing or some noise... |
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UnderTow
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9
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1448
Posted : Feb 4, 2006 17:19
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On 2006-02-01 11:47, bukboy wrote:
If I remember correctly a single pole lowpass filter has a rolloff of 6db per octave, which means (theoretically) if tuned at 1 khz, the 1khz signal will pass through quasi unmodified, the 2 khz signal will be 6db's down(i.e. half the volume) & the 4khz signal will be half of a half, i.e.
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Usualy the cutoff frequency on a filter is given as the -3 dB point. So in your example, the signal is down by 3dB at 1Khz.
The reason for using this point is allready given in your explanation: The filter is a logarythmic curve so it doesn't have an exact 0 dB point. It just approaches 0 the closer you get to infinity ...
There are also other things going on in filters: There can be phase shifting that effects the signal in various ways. Also, even with a theoretical "brick wall" high-pass filter that works at exactly one frequency, you can still affect higher frequencies. A lower frequency can have phase cancelation with higher frequencies so removing it can affect the higher frequencies as well.
Linear phase filters have pre and post ringing which will also affect the sound. Nothing is "perfect". It is all about choosing the right compromise.
damage: If the mastering engineer lobs off all the low-end on your album in a damaging way, the guy needs to be fired. 
I saw Eskimo do a live act a year ago or so. When he started his set, all the sub-bass disapeared compared to the DJ before him. Even people that are not producers or sound engineers were complaining about it... No mastering engineer was to blame for this. I guess Junya needs better monitors with more bass extention to hear what is really going on in the low-end.
UnderTow |
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sex stile
IsraTrance Junior Member
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31
Posted : Feb 6, 2006 06:47
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I think frequencies is the most important thing in any kind of music, it is beacuse of them we can mace some music...
alright, but we cant lost the ideia that psy-trance music was made to expand the mind, by braking barrers of the real world. It is wrong to put a line on any way of production, it is the same as putting a barrer...if you guys undestand me...jus do what it is right to you and brake some barerr...
--$-- |
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Cannabis
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
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246
Posted : Feb 6, 2006 20:12
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On 2006-02-06 06:47, sex stile wrote:
I think frequencies is the most important thing in any kind of music, it is beacuse of them we can mace some music...
alright, but we cant lost the ideia that psy-trance music was made to expand the mind, by braking barrers of the real world. It is wrong to put a line on any way of production, it is the same as putting a barrer...if you guys undestand me...jus do what it is right to you and brake some barerr...
Well, yes and no
the frquency spread of mix and master are subject to the timely trend of a particular genre or subgenre . Just because it is mind expanding Psytrance genre, it doesn't mean that a muddy mix is OK. A good track is IMHO provides clearnce in all frequency.
--$--
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sex stile
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
31
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 04:48
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On 2006-02-06 20:12, Cannabis wrote:
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Well, yes and no
the frquency spread of mix and master are subject to the timely trend of a particular genre or subgenre . Just because it is mind expanding Psytrance genre, it doesn't mean that a muddy mix is OK. A good track is IMHO provides clearnce in all frequency.
..i igree with you totaly on that, a nice production need some professional treetment, that is the basic. But that is the point, thinking like that you are automatic puttung a barrer...and psytrance is about braking barrers, any kind of it...if sound good to you ok...but may not soud good to another one....vice-verca..
--$--
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