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frequencys in psytrance
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
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1660
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 13:18
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I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. This from two reasons -
1. Natural length of Sub Bass waves is phisically long, and to develop that feel of sub one has to choose slower tempo anyway.
2. Very fast dance music is meant ( at least in last years ) to introduce the KICK as the major dancing tool and to distinguish it from the bass many times the bass got cut in the process of the mix.
Personally I love subs and love a lot of bass, that is why for me it is great to work with slower bpm's in environment where I dont have to make ppl get totally insane, but to make at least as danceable stuff as listenable. I have to comment tho that the producers sometimes forget that the ordinary listener at home doesnt have those killlaargh studio monitors, and then tracks with too much bass might sound really muddy on low end sound systems.
  A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 13:22
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-14 13:18, Yuli wrote:
I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. This from two reasons -
1. Natural length of Sub Bass waves is phisically long, and to develop that feel of sub one has to choose slower tempo anyway.
2. Very fast dance music is meant ( at least in last years ) to introduce the KICK as the major dancing tool and to distinguish it from the bass many times the bass got cut in the process of the mix.
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hmmm... so... what about dnb?
sub-sub bass and faster than trance?
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 13:54
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On 2005-12-14 11:49, Kire-naj wrote:
e-motion. Your words make no sense. I know what you "mean", but its all irrelevant.
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statements without arguments are the ones without sense. |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 13:57
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On 2005-12-14 13:22, sy000321 wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-12-14 13:18, Yuli wrote:
I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. This from two reasons -
1. Natural length of Sub Bass waves is phisically long, and to develop that feel of sub one has to choose slower tempo anyway.
2. Very fast dance music is meant ( at least in last years ) to introduce the KICK as the major dancing tool and to distinguish it from the bass many times the bass got cut in the process of the mix.
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hmmm... so... what about dnb?
sub-sub bass and faster than trance?
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drum & bass dont use 400kilos fat 4/4 kick drum so its easyer to make a super fat bass! i was making drum & bass some years ago and trust me i know!!
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 14:12
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On 2005-12-14 13:57, orange-atropa wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-12-14 13:22, sy000321 wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-12-14 13:18, Yuli wrote:
I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. This from two reasons -
1. Natural length of Sub Bass waves is phisically long, and to develop that feel of sub one has to choose slower tempo anyway.
2. Very fast dance music is meant ( at least in last years ) to introduce the KICK as the major dancing tool and to distinguish it from the bass many times the bass got cut in the process of the mix.
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hmmm... so... what about dnb?
sub-sub bass and faster than trance?
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drum & bass dont use 400kilos fat 4/4 kick drum so its easyer to make a super fat bass! i was making drum & bass some years ago and trust me i know!!
orange
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D'n'b tunes don't have to conform to 16th bassline patterns. Note length is much longer and varies a lot as well.
Anyway, you can have massive drums and phat bass. Sidechain compression will sort out the headroom when the kick and bass coincide. I am guilty of making 145BPM tunes, but nowdays I think that anything above 142 sounds too rushed.
Anyway, the last few tunes I've done are all 132 which I find a much better tempo.
Me>You |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 14:22
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On 2005-12-14 14:12, 14-year old e-tard D'n'b tunes don't have to conform to 16th bassline patterns. Note length is much longer and varies a lot as well.
Anyway, you can have massive drums and phat bass. Sidechain compression will sort out the headroom when the kick and bass coincide. I am guilty of making 145BPM tunes, but nowdays I think that anything above 142 sounds too rushed.
Anyway, the last few tunes I've done are all 132 which I find a much better tempo.
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you dont have to conform to 16th notes in psy 
but it's true, it's harder to make play small notes of smaller freqs
and dnb has very little bass, so it sounds huge when its there...
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 14:53
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On 2005-12-14 14:22, sy000321 wrote:
and dnb has very little bass, so it sounds huge when its there...
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?
Most d'n'b tunes have stupidly loud basslines.
Me>You |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 15:24
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but not sub-bass or have them?
maybe it's my lack of dnb knowledge speaking...
but in a dnb track the bass drops regularly, doesnt it?
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 16:10
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There is stupendous sub in d'n'b tunes as well.
Me>You |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 16:11
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On 2005-12-14 13:54, e-motion wrote:
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On 2005-12-14 11:49, Kire-naj wrote:
e-motion. Your words make no sense. I know what you "mean", but its all irrelevant.
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statements without arguments are the ones without sense.
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Good, then we can agree on disagreeing to nothing relevant. 
btw. I just wanted to thank you all for sharing your expertize and views. It's quit interesting. Eszpecziazlly since I know nothing when it czomesz to the teczhiniczazl azpect. Wze livze, wze zzlearznzz Z:Z)
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vox
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
114
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 16:50
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On 2005-12-14 15:24, sy000321 wrote:
but not sub-bass or have them?
maybe it's my lack of dnb knowledge speaking...
but in a dnb track the bass drops regularly, doesnt it?
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listen to some dillinja stuff, then come back. you might shit yourself how deep this stuff goes, that's how low his basslines go. in dnb there is no such thing as too low bass
http://myspace.com/voxproject |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 16:53
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On 2005-12-14 16:50, vox wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-12-14 15:24, sy000321 wrote:
but not sub-bass or have them?
maybe it's my lack of dnb knowledge speaking...
but in a dnb track the bass drops regularly, doesnt it?
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listen to some dillinja stuff, then come back. you might shit yourself how deep this stuff goes, that's how low his basslines go. in dnb there is no such thing as too low bass
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please read my previews posts...
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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damage
damage
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
321
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 17:29
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On 2005-12-14 13:18, Yuli wrote:
I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. |
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i don`t agree. if you look in a good analizer at all the new best produced hardcore trax (160-170 BPM) , it`s got alot more subs then psy-trance. it fits in there real tigth (obviously not without the help of a good producer) and does its job real good too.
you can control sound any way you want to.
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
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263
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 18:05
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In drum'n bass they typically use a "reese" which is basically like a detuned and synced "hoover" sound played in a low octave. The kickdrums in DnB r fast, but the Reese bassline is played like a long pad, and its sidechained to the Kick. K ___S___ k__K_ S is the pattern kinda, with the ___ being the bassline. Thats why it works. Its not anything like Psybassline which are 1/16ths notes or smaller. |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Dec 15, 2005 08:49
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On 2005-12-14 17:29, damage wrote:
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On 2005-12-14 13:18, Yuli wrote:
I think that in the more faster realms of trance, lets say the 145 and faster... realms, there is not much choice but remove some sub freq from the bass. |
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i don`t agree. if you look in a good analizer at all the new best produced hardcore trax (160-170 BPM) , it`s got alot more subs then psy-trance. it fits in there real tigth (obviously not without the help of a good producer) and does its job real good too.
you can control sound any way you want to.
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Well mate I was making fast tracks myself at the time with quite a lot of sub bass. But as much as it is really great for home listening ( if u got a good setup ), it's a bit of a downer for dancing for some ppl. My assumption about this was and still is that the length of the sub bass frequencies, as I mentioned before is matematically too long. So if u really want the sub to kick in ( I guess u need at least quarter of a cycle for that ), then either u will have to make a non 16th bass line or your track will be damn muddy. I wouldnt say it is impossible to make subs work even on 16th bassline but as far as I can see it, especially in the trance scene as it is today, it will be left unapreciated dancefloor wise.
About the bass in the super fast Drum n' Bass tracks, it is very simple - devide the bpm by 2 and then u will get the real bpm of the bassline. You will find out that those tracks as much as they are super fast, they are super slow for the bass, and that is why and how they manage to reach so much deepness in the sub bass - they have enough time for the sine to develop into a full cycle
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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