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frequencys in psytrance
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Barius
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
78
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 04:17
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On 2005-12-08 22:52, soulfood wrote:
I think people like music to be too complicated for no good reason (other than "look at me! Look at what I can do")
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Oh man! this is so true! There is just too much technical masturbation out there. I mean if you have great technical skills, then good for you. Show it off for Godīs sake, but donīt forget to make songs with feeling and meaning. I try to create tunes that are journeys, not technical show offs.
And Kire-naj, I donīt care if you donīt know the technical aspects of the word frequencies, I still know excactly what you mean! Some of those basslines are simply too damn dominant. Takes over the whole song. AND they sound thin too! The bass is gone, replaced by a basslike lead wich carries on the song from beginning to end.
But i will say this: I LOVE a lot of full on. even the typical melodic israeli kind. I donīt really care what style it is, just as long as it triggers something inside me. What you say about full-on being similar too "eurotrance" I donīt really get.
Kire-naj, here is my guess(my guess only, so correct me if I am wrong): You went from listening to the most melodic Goa to diving into the darker realms of trance. Now you just find the melodies of modern psytrance too cheesy, so you compare it with euotrance/Tiesto trance/Anthem trance... Well I DONīT see the connection. I find a lot of darkpsy to be faaaaaar more cheesy than your average fullon. The "cheesiness" isnīt always in the melodies. For me anyway.
Besides, we norwegians see the whole Tiesto thingy very different from the rest of the world. Simply because he got big here first. Even before he got big in the netherlands! I think some of us hates that fact. Loathes it, because we regard Tiesto as being King Cheese. The destroyer of true trance. Well... that attitude has just got to stop. It has NOTHING to do with psychedelic trance OR full-on, so just leave it! I really donīt see the point.
Have you even heard the mainstream trance nowadays? Itīs nothing like fullon, man. Itīs like progressive poptrance. And I donīt care if it is just that. Poptrance.
Psytrancers: Keep making the music we love and keep on dancing. Keep on searching for new ways of understanding of what this scene really is. If psytrance artists get more money and recognition for what they do, I personally find it all positive. This scene will evolve, and it will evolve naturally.
wow... too much beer folks. thanx for your time |
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Freakuency
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
46
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 05:22
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Speaking of freaquencies ,.,.,.,., here I'm 
I'm totally agree with NikC that many producers novadays chop all subs bc they are scared to face the reality. Anyways, I think subs is the most hardest range to work with and it always goes wrong. When it comes to subs, I work with them when my track is done. I think subs must be the last thing to work with since you need to have the balance of the entire track before switching to subs. Well that's just my experience, anyone else feels like shring his knowledge?
What processing tools do you use for subs?
My response: RBass, PSP MixBass.
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damage
damage
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
321
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 07:48
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the problem many producers face at the moment, is that alot of subs gets removed when a cd gets mastered.
reason - it will sound good on any sound system at home and you never really have to worry about it at parties either, cause the sound is set up in such a way that you will not care about there not being enough bass or subs.
so, the problem. you can produce a track with wicked subs, but the mastering engineer might take it out and you will be left with the rest of the bass frequancies, which is not as good as the subs were, cause most of your focus went into the subs...or , you can focuss more on the upper frequancies of the bass and make sure that it sounds nice , phat & solid. then you will be sure that the bass will still sound good after mastering.
personally, i prefer the subs, but in my latest trax, i started focusing on both the subs and the higher frequancies of the bass. it`s not something you can tweak in one go though(not for me at least). it takes alot of processing to get it 100%, but forsure worth it in the end. and i dont think that the vb1 is the best synth for this. its nice and easy to use, but not the best.
tip to beginners. use a good frequancy analizer on every single sound you make so you can see what`s happening with those frequancies. use it to check out the frequancies in your favourate trax and the ones you think the subs are to low. you will learn alot this way. |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 13:30
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On 2005-12-10 05:22, Freakuency wrote:
Speaking of freaquencies ,.,.,.,., here I'm
I'm totally agree with NikC that many producers novadays chop all subs bc they are scared to face the reality. Anyways, I think subs is the most hardest range to work with and it always goes wrong. When it comes to subs, I work with them when my track is done. I think subs must be the last thing to work with since you need to have the balance of the entire track before switching to subs. Well that's just my experience, anyone else feels like shring his knowledge?
What processing tools do you use for subs?
My response: RBass, PSP MixBass.
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eq & eq
orange
 http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 14:26
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subs ARE the most difficult area to work. why? mainly because one of the main reasons that makes psy one of the hardest styles to mix... having a ultra fat bassline and strong kick playing at the same time. subs are the frequencys that our ear is less sensible (you'll have to take rests more often when mixing the subs and listen often to references) and it clashes pretty easyly. i use mixbass and maxxbass. dont exagerate in the hipass filters neither cut all the "original bass" on maxxbass, that's a common error. |
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Barius
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
78
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 14:44
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Totally. Bass and sub is hard work. Oh well, back to the tweaking... |
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macca
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
7
Posted : Dec 13, 2005 02:07
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I think that is an idea, that has its true.
why criticize to destroy instead of criticize do construct!???? lol
Penso que a cena trance nacional e internacional esta muito bem implantada, a musica em si é uma viagem unica, mas afinal o q é o trance?!!:)....lololol ..it never ends..lololol |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 13, 2005 13:26
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Barius ::: Thank you for your understanding, and interesting view on things.
I only listened to trance in 1997-1999 after that it kinda faded into something weak and commercial. I was more the guy who went from rock (manson, korn, deftones, fear factory ect) to Infected Mushroom. I had a Goa compilation. But never (untill Infected infected me) realy liked it. I remember liking Zodiac Youth - psychedelic Circus. But the rest was a bit boring to me. .. Now, I love old Goa. Chese. I have nothing against cheese. There's just some that uses to much cheese, wrong cheese or just manages to put the cheese where it doesnt belong.
X = Love = Cheese = Cheesy music for people on a cheesy drug. .. no?
I have the Astrix album Artcore on my mp3 (I only hae it on mp3, dont wanna buy it) And I can feel/hear alot of the same vibes/formula in his tracks as in old goodies "VA - Magik" by Tiesto. I belive and see the connection. Of cource it isnt AS full-on. But the drugs are often the same and the cheese is often the same (though Tiestos use of cheese in the old days where kinda good (i'm 25 now). Full-On is in my opinion A hyper modern version of Euro. It's just labeled "made in Isreal" most of the times. - Full-On is and hasd alot of good acts. Psysex is imo the perfect group when it comes to making psychedelic full-on. More acts should learn from them when it comes to the psy. .. Do you concider "Vibe Tribe" "Hypersonic" to be psychedelic full-on, or cheesy full-on? .. oh no, i'm turning it into a full-on thread. .. Sorry
*poff*
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vox
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
114
Posted : Dec 13, 2005 16:04
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-10 07:48, damage wrote:
the problem many producers face at the moment, is that alot of subs gets removed when a cd gets mastered.
so, the problem. you can produce a track with wicked subs, but the mastering engineer might take it out and you will be left with the rest of the bass frequancies, which is not as good as the subs were, cause most of your focus went into the subs...or , you can focuss more on the upper frequancies of the bass and make sure that it sounds nice , phat & solid. then you will be sure that the bass will still sound good after mastering.
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what do you mean when you say 'subs'? which exact frequencies are that? i consider subs to be the frequencies below 40 hz or so. there is no nearfield monitor which can reproduce those frequencies. if you can't monitor those frequencies, it is better to filter them out from all but your basslines, because you can not hear how good they sound. anyway, there is not much useful material below 30 hz, so it is better to filter that out.
http://myspace.com/voxproject |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 13, 2005 16:13
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On 2005-12-10 14:26, e-motion wrote:
subs ARE the most difficult area to work. |
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hmmm... i think the lows-mids are the harder part to mix because so much has to fit in there...
and yes: near-fields do go under 40hz _but_ most PAs dont (soo iveeee beeeeennnnn tolllllddddddd)
those freqs are hardly noticeable but can be felt.
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Dec 13, 2005 19:05
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On 2005-12-13 13:26, Kire-naj wrote:
Barius ::: Thank you for your understanding, and interesting view on things.
I only listened to trance in 1997-1999 after that it kinda faded into something weak and commercial. I was more the guy who went from rock (manson, korn, deftones, fear factory ect) to Infected Mushroom. I had a Goa compilation. But never (untill Infected infected me) realy liked it. I remember liking Zodiac Youth - psychedelic Circus. But the rest was a bit boring to me. .. Now, I love old Goa. Chese. I have nothing against cheese. There's just some that uses to much cheese, wrong cheese or just manages to put the cheese where it doesnt belong.
X = Love = Cheese = Cheesy music for people on a cheesy drug. .. no?
I have the Astrix album Artcore on my mp3 (I only hae it on mp3, dont wanna buy it) And I can feel/hear alot of the same vibes/formula in his tracks as in old goodies "VA - Magik" by Tiesto. I belive and see the connection. Of cource it isnt AS full-on. But the drugs are often the same and the cheese is often the same (though Tiestos use of cheese in the old days where kinda good (i'm 25 now). Full-On is in my opinion A hyper modern version of Euro. It's just labeled "made in Isreal" most of the times. - Full-On is and hasd alot of good acts. Psysex is imo the perfect group when it comes to making psychedelic full-on. More acts should learn from them when it comes to the psy. .. Do you concider "Vibe Tribe" "Hypersonic" to be psychedelic full-on, or cheesy full-on? .. oh no, i'm turning it into a full-on thread. .. Sorry
*poff*
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/me remembers his post on the begining of the thread. you say trance is getting comercial then you talk about the comercial names of trance... looooool what would you expect? if you can't find good full on don't blame full on. plus why can't people stop talking about drugs when they talk about trance? "dark is acid, full on is X" what the does that matter? you worry too much about drugs people  there's good full on (not for X, as it does matter to you) out there even in known labels... in 3 words:
3D Vision Records.
PS: trance is not for X, LSD, Mescaline, Mushrooms... if you really like it the drugs you take don't matter. |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 11:49
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e-motion. Your words make no sense. I know what you "mean", but its all irrelevant.
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vox
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
114
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 11:59
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On 2005-12-13 16:13, sy000321 wrote:
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On 2005-12-10 14:26, e-motion wrote:
subs ARE the most difficult area to work. |
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hmmm... i think the lows-mids are the harder part to mix because so much has to fit in there...
and yes: near-fields do go under 40hz _but_ most PAs dont (soo iveeee beeeeennnnn tolllllddddddd)
those freqs are hardly noticeable but can be felt.
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huh? how can a 6 inch membrane reproduce 30 Hz, and 18 inch cannot? i find that to be a bit weird. which monitors do you refer to?
genelec 1032A nearfields go down to 42 hz with their 10 inch cone (with 2.5 dB attenuation), and alesis m1 mk2 active monitors are stated to go down to 38 with their 6.5" inch cone, but at -10 dB, which is completely unproffesional of them. let's say they can go to 75 hz with -4 dB. krk rp6 are stated as 48 hz with an 6 inch cone, but specs do not say at how many db.
anyhow, i agree with the statement that low mids are harder to mix than the subs.
http://myspace.com/voxproject |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 12:07
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Vox - As in SynSUN? heard your gonna release a new album?
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Dec 14, 2005 12:20
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On 2005-12-14 11:59, vox wrote:
huh? how can a 6 inch membrane reproduce 30 Hz, and 18 inch cannot? i find that to be a bit weird. which monitors do you refer to?
genelec 1032A nearfields go down to 42 hz with their 10 inch cone (with 2.5 dB attenuation), and alesis m1 mk2 active monitors are stated to go down to 38 with their 6.5" inch cone, but at -10 dB, which is completely unproffesional of them. let's say they can go to 75 hz with -4 dB. krk rp6 are stated as 48 hz with an 6 inch cone, but specs do not say at how many db.
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you're right. i had it confused. usually 6" / 6",5 monitors are only flat down to 50hz(m1 mk2) or 40hz (like the mackies hr 6"... i think i not saying crap again  ).
Alesis only claims a near flat response down to near 50hz, so below that freq response may be 100% random...
Regarding PAs, the info about freqs being cut below 40hz in Public Address systems has been posted times and times here. I dont know if it is right... suposedly it's a protection to the woofer
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On 2005-12-14 11:59, vox wrote:
anyhow, i agree with the statement that low mids are harder to mix than the subs.
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sure they are
the lows are just a bit tough to get a good monitoring at.
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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