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frequencys in psytrance
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
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71
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933
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 00:00
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i just said this cause i hate the comments about full on basslines... it's so not true !
yes full on basslines are all equal... if you always listen to the same kind of full on ! and this is the same for dark !
so why do people keep talking about the full on bassline? i don't even know what a full on bassline is ! is it skazi's ? skazi's is unique. is it chemical crew ? no chemical crew's sound like dark basslines... is it VB1 ? could be but dark use's VB1 a lot too...
sorry for saying this this way... i'm not being agressive (altough it may seem so cause i'm writting not talking hehehe) but this is something i've been thinking for a loooooottttt without commenting  |
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FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 00:34
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I think there is too much debating going on here each producer can use whatever styles they want there is never any right way to do it but the way that sounds good to you (with a few technical aspects in mind)
hypersonic-----his bass is "weak" in some opinions but it is just what he wants it to sound like people may criticize it but it really doesnt matter.
same with any dark or minimal or morning whatever its all a subjective and a pointless debate.
Im a big fan of just making it the way you want it and thats just the way it is
when someone finishes a painting people might see it on the wall and say well this color is wrong for a painting or its too messy here or this brush stroke is too heavy but if thats the way the artist wanted it to look it doesnt matter. now maybe more people would like the painting if it was done differently but the fact is its not always about the fans if they like what you are doing and what your vision is thats a bonus!! I cant think of many producers making music for other people its a very personal art with no rules.
the end |
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kirna
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
64
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 00:44
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i see many producers "try to draw, mona lisa" 
and what do you think about the fact that pop music has changed more than psychedelic trance in past few years... |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 01:12
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@Scobbah:
Det e ju fan sant!  
@e-motion:
I personally consider the 'full-on' bassline to be to do with the rhythm, and not the actual sound.
i.e. the Kbbb Kbbb Kbbb Kbbb
Skazi, CC, Astrix, Kindzadza, Ocelot etc. i.e. all the various style whether morning or night-time use it.
Anyway, that's only my personal interpretation of what 'Full-on' is.
I think the point made though was that some of these basslines aren't as powerful as eachother in the sub/low region of the frequency spectrum.
@FaceHead,
I agree with you about creating what you want to create.
However, it is my opinion that if you do not have a mastery of the technique in the first place you cannot create exactly what you hear in your head.
i.e. you can make a bassline that you're happy with, but will it be 100% exactly what you want your bassline to be?
Sure, if you want a bassline with no real deep subs, fine!...
But is that honestly what you think is the kind of bassline producers want to make?
Considering both that the kick and bass are (whatever people may say) two of the most important parts of a psytrance track, and the general trend for creating the most "killargh" bassline.
@Kirna:
I agree, many producers are trying to create basslines that have been heard before (if that is the point you're making)
The reason pop music has changed more than psytrance is because pop music is (by definition) trend based, and therefore has to change often according to what is wanted by the masses.
 www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 02:00
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I dont know if i should go deep in this subject.
I think "FaceHead" said some very true words.. kudos!
and so did you "BeatNik"
Anyway! Frequencies are nice.. i love them..in many different kinds and in all different shapes..
much like women...
Here is
some lovely stuff for you to play with and learn aswell maybe....
http://catcode.com/trig/index.html
if you have time go from begining to end or end to begining... do it your way
love and light.. have fun!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency
and people remember that there are some dangerous frequencies and waveforms out there! you have to be carefull...
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FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 08:52
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@nik yes you are right thats really what I was trying to get at tech knowledge is a must to get just what you want all I was saying is there is no "right way" there is alot of techniques to improve the sound but no final right way.
The way Changes come are from people repeatedly doing things that arent the standard or even accepted at first until eventually they fail or people start to like it. I love the way psytrance basslines sound but im also really interested in hearing if there is other ways to make an interesting unique bass sound that still compliments the energy and psychedelia involved with this music Im not the person to do it at this point or maybe ever but I would welcome it.
Thanks
-FaceHead- |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 14:25
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On 2005-12-07 17:30, Kire-naj wrote:
frequencys in a track is realy important, and especially important when it comes to the more psychedelic sounds and vibes of a track.
Why is it that I hear less and less Low frequencys in releases such as "Bubble - Airless"? (and many other "full-on related" releases ..
How can you create a mind bobbling (or claim to) without thinking of the multible frequencys that should be in place to create it? .. frequencys are so important, and most (all) "real" psy-releases has producers that are "smart" enough to think about the low- , and midtones instead of ONLY the high- and midtones.
We need more "cleaver" frequencys in the music, we need more psytones 
... Or maybe producers such as "new" infected Mushroom avoid "low" frequencys to make it more "plastic" and clear for the major dancefloor? ..
np. Fluke - Risotto (lots of low frequencys.. mmmmm playfull baselines with intelligence)
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To be honest, there are tracks with “too much bass” and there are tracks with “too little bass” and there are tracks with “too much treble” or vice verse…
Some tracks might sound “thin” on a small system, but they sound great on a big system… one thing is for sure, I really don’t like it when a track has that humming effect so the bass sound is taking over everything, and all you hear is a hum… like hum hum hum hum hum and everything gets buried in it…
There are so many factors playing a big role when it comes to how things sound.. And if we like it or not has a lot to do with taste.
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 19:55
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On 2005-12-07 18:55, john_c wrote:
it depends what kind of music you are writing. IM's new stuff is more minimal and made to rock a dancefloor rather than take you on a psychadelic journey. |
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exacly, and isnt "taking you on a psychedelic" journey the whole point of a psytrance/Goa track? .. This is where Full.On is seperated from the rest I guess.
btw e-motion
. This is not and was never intended to be a "bash full-on" thread. I was just interested in learning more about the frequencies of music and what importance they have ... I am, as said, clueless in the technical aspect, but I got a good ear and a taste for the psychedelic.
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 20:10
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-07 22:53, NikC wrote:
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On 2005-12-07 17:30, Kire-naj wrote:
frequencys in a track is realy important, and especially important when it comes to the more psychedelic sounds and vibes of a track. |
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Yes, frequencies are important.
If there were no frequencies there would be no track.
It would just be silent... Like: "shh"
No shit sherlock- And there goes my expertice.
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Why is it that I hear less and less Low frequencys in releases such as "Bubble - Airless"? (and many other "full-on related" releases ..
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Because some artists (no names mentioned.. but S***i is a clue) choose to highpass their basslines and kicks at a far to high frequency.
Why? Well, because it stops you having to worry about getting the subs to sound right if you're churning out tracks like a factory.
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How can you create a mind bobbling (or claim to) without thinking of the multible frequencys that should be in place to create it?
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umm?
I ment, how can one create a truly bubbling track of psychedelia without using many different frequencies, or doesnt that have anything to do with it?
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.. frequencys are so important, and most (all) "real" psy-releases has producers that are "smart" enough to think about the low- , and midtones instead of ONLY the high- and midtones.
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As said before, frequencies are important, because they are the music. I don't think you really understand what a frequency is.
No need to "point" that out, I already said that I dont got a clue
A good producer (of any form of music) should think about all of the frequency bands (which i think is what you're referring to when you say frequencies). yes, thats what I mean, i think
So that: Subs sound good, low-mids sound good, high-mids sound good, and highs sound good.
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We need more "cleaver" frequencys in the music, we need more psytones
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I don't know what a 'cleaver frequency' is. It makes me think of someone chopping a waveform in half and lots of blood.
Psytones? All music can be made up of the same tones... there are no particular psychedelic 'tones'. I know what a psytone is, it's hard to explain, but it's when the tone of the meldodie ect is moving in another direction from the other sounds, making a more trippy athmosphere, hard to explain right now. I'm struggling to find the right example. (psytones is me btw)
I think you mean psy 'sounds'. Yes, yes I do. But then again, whats a psy"sound"?
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... Or maybe producers such as "new" infected Mushroom avoid "low" frequencys to make it more "plastic" and clear for the major dancefloor? ..
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Whatever people may say about Infected Mushroom's new music, they are none-the-less tremendously good producers.
They may not have the most powerful subs in psytrance, but their bass sounds are tight, clear and powerful.
Plus, people want big basses at big venues with good soundsystems. I don't know what you mean by 'plastic' though.
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np. Fluke - Risotto (lots of low frequencys.. mmmmm playfull baselines with intelligence)
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Please define what you mean by 'intelligence'.
Ok.. (Surrender said) Psysex is what you would call intelligent full-on music. no? ... Infected used alot of basemovements and variations in their first two albums (just an example) .. And thats intelligent. Prodigy ect ect. But as you, me and others have pointed out several times allready, (what else can I call it?) full-on uses a firm and clear baseline, so that its more dancible. .. No one even slows down the tempo at small parts to make a trippy vibe
Hope this clears up a few issues.
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Not realy (exept a point or two). But thanks for the contribution.
Edit: eww... my small reply's looks messy, oh well. And one more thing, seems that frequencies has only to do with the baseline. I was shure frequincies could be used in many aspecters of the sound, guess I was wrong.
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 20:22
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On 2005-12-07 23:36, Barius wrote:
I think he probably is talking about certain modern full on trance tunes where the basslines sounds too centered and thin. The bass maybe clear, but not always full. I have heard a lot of tunes that has this kinda sound. VERY clear basslines, almost too clear, but not pumping and deep. It often takes away the attention from the rest of the song. Sometimes I think it is way too dominant. Almost like a lead
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true, and my last buy was "Bubble - Airless". Good album I guess, but because of the (quote)"VERY clear basslines, almost too clear, but not pumping and deep." Just because of that, I can not realy enjoy their album. I realy hate that this kind of baseline takes away the attention from the music. - Goa baselines always used to sound so flat and monotom. Just like full-on I guess, but without the power and "kick!". While on a trip, do you realy care about the baseline? No, it's what happening in the "background" that most often leave an impression.
If you want to take focus on the baselines, I think it should be deep. I mean, what do you prefer in house? Light House, Soul House, Vocal House or Deep House (which very often can be much much more trippy then most "psy"releases these days (still not bashing full-on)
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 20:31
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This whole topic seems to be a mistake.
I realy had no clue about what "frequincies" realy where about. ..
I should open up a thread (or not ) about layers instead, hehe. .. Layers. Not layers as "The Misted Muppets" .. . Layers, as in some can be hard to hear, some are so and so, and some are in your face. Psytrance used to "hide" alot of sounds and melodies inside the music, you know what I mean?. Now, the kids/people who produce psytrance just shubbs it all in your face. And thats a bit to much "speed/x" vibes for me. I want something for the mind, i want a psychedelic journey without rules. I want to be suprised, amazed and stunned. I want to be moved.. I want a story and/or a fairytale. I dont want to be smudged in the face with sounds that are "supposed" to be cool. I dont want to listen to remakes of old "euro-trance" tracks (to me, most full-on is just that, a hyper modern and cool version of "euro-trance" - Come on, cant you see the link?.) I want a original/psychedelic story teller, a derenger taking me on a ride. To be a psyproducer comes many responsebileties. Think of it, your "responsible" for someones trip. I would take pride in that.
Modern psytrance, then I prefer releases from Twisted and Organic records, thats what I call psytrance for the year 2005.
Fuck what I want, I got it - there are soooo many great releases out there (old and new) which gives me exacly what I'm looking for, and I'm buying as many of them as possible. So i wount complain. *topic ended*
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Dec 8, 2005 22:52
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I think people like music to be too complicated for no good reason (other than "look at me! Look at what I can do"). I personally see no problems with similar bassline patterns. In Psy trance today the bassline isnt meant to be melodic, its merely there to hold a groove you can stomp to like a son-of-a-bitch.
As for having complicated bass sounds... wouldnt work. Top end space is needed for extra PSY-POWER!!!! *cough* Yeah you were talking bout the lower end... well... think about the mums and dads! They's tryna watch TV!
You should give progressive a try. |
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Andrew
Voice Of Cod / Zuloop
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
218
Posted : Dec 9, 2005 00:00
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On 2005-12-08 20:31, Kire-naj wrote:
To be a psyproducer comes many responsebileties. Think of it, your "responsible" for someones trip.
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nice way to put it.
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icodon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
120
Posted : Dec 9, 2005 00:10
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On 2005-12-08 20:31, Kire-naj wrote:
...I want something for the mind, i want a psychedelic journey without rules. I want to be suprised, amazed and stunned. I want to be moved.. I want a story and/or a fairytale. I dont want to be smudged in the face with sounds that are "supposed" to be cool. I dont want to listen to remakes of old "euro-trance" tracks (to me, most full-on is just that, a hyper modern and cool version of "euro-trance" - Come on, cant you see the link?.) I want a original/psychedelic story teller, a derenger taking me on a ride...
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I could suggest you a great tea....I would call it "high frequencie tea"...you drink and you will find what you are looking for....
...Groove´n´dooR... |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Dec 9, 2005 00:53
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@ soulfood - I love progressive. As said, i dont mind a "boring" beat, as long as it doesnt "take over" the music. The beat is merly (mearly?) a product to keep you, the listner in trance (And to make you dance). The beatlines are a guide to keep the track together. When your trippin, you wount notice the beats .. As said, it's whats "behind" the music that counts. But yes, I love/like Progressive and Tech. ..
@ andrew - Oh stop it, i'm blushing (thanks for your music contribution (old and new))
@ icodon - Oh, I have found my fav. Tea. It's called "DEMON TEA RECORDINGS" .. You should check it out. It might just suprise you
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