NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2014 20:50:42
Hi guys I know that this is maybe topic which still repeat and repeat but I am curious so excuse me . I would like to know how to create basslines like fobi.
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 14:16
You cant and in some way shouldnt create same kick/bass timbre.Look for your own sound and forget copying others cause you never know what processing they have used plus mastering.Only help that can tell you for song above it is that bassline sounds like old school vb-1. Cheers
NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 15:47
Yes you have absolute right about copying but I am looking for my own style. I think its not bad when you pick what you like from others and change it a little bit to fit your style. Something like is not necessary to invent chair . Anyway thx for your reply https://soundcloud.com/nebulosity
PsyTriYe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 17:16
how do you think its created? if u cant hear how then you stil got a long way to go weather i tel u how or not
NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 18:16
It can be from VB-1 on my opinion than good EQ and distortion maybe QuadraFuzz or saturn from fab-filter I dont know maybe he used some tape simulation staff. When I try to make something similar it has no power on low end or terrible high end a its not that sharp. I know that I do something basic wrong but dont know what. I tried many tips and tricks many staff bass enhancers, pultec eq, compression, sidechain, distortion, gated sin, layering, paralel compression on submix. Probably it takes only more time and practise.
https://soundcloud.com/nebulosity
Hypereal
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 20:01
First of all dont try to achieve mastered low end sound cause you will fail.Second is to return to basics from the source of sound-choose sample kick or make your own,same goes for bassline vst-envelope it,play with note lengths,velocity to cuttof/volume.After that use EQ(I prefer minimum phase mode) you like,forget for now about enhancers,compression and all that you mentioned.IMPORTANT TIP while going toward shaping the sound so they glue together dont loop them on solo,add some full drum loop and then you EQ them much easier! Because what sounded clicky,honky etc on they own now cuts through the mix.Doing like that you will much faster hear whats needed to adjust on both of them rather than fitting them for hours,months,YEARS on solo which I believe tends to be problem of getting too bassy or too clicky,sharp you name it.You probably know it or heard it but I will repeat-IT ONLY MATTERS HOW IT SOUNDS IN THE MIX.So take care and I wish you good luck.
PsyTriYe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 20:18
only matters how it sounds in the mix .? yes and no..... this is like going down on the most beautiful woman to find she has a penis ....its all very well covering a bad bassline up by masking it.. we can all do that...,,
perfect the individual!! i hate it when all the good stuff stops leaving the bassline and kick on its own and it sounds terrible! no thanku
Hypereal
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 20:21
Bass Secrets - Mixing Bass 2 - Billy Cosmosis
Practical E.qing - in the Context of Kick and/or Bass lines
First the bad news: there is no recipe for how to e.q a bassline. One cannot just say, "just boost x frequency by x db, or cut y frequency by x db and it'll sound great."
Why? Because it depends on the unique properties the kick you're using (mainly it's frequency content and length), the bassline note lengths, the key of the bass line, the bass sound and waveform and the bass level relative to the kick.
You have to listen to see how they interact against each other. This makes it an art rather than a science. Hence the importance of being able to actually hear what you are doing. Once you can hear what's going on, then you can begin the process of training your ears to focus upon hearing low frequency detail and start improve your mixing skill.
Second thing to bear in mind is this: If you want to have a huge and chunky bottom end on you tracks then you must either (and somewhat counter-intuitively) skinny up the bassline or the kick by reducing or removing the subs with e.q. It's either one or the other, but not both.
Both kick and bassline cannot be rich in sub-bass and co-exist in the same track at the same time. Or rather they can, but you'll end up with a boomy and indistinct result. I've known this in theory for longer than I care to admit, but that didn't stop me for most of my record making life from trying to have both the the bassline and the kick be fat and chunky at the same time, but I've eventually been dragged kicking and screaming to the conclusion that it just doesn't work.
What I've discovered by my own experimentation is that the lower you go in terms of frequency, the more problematic getting two low frequencies to co-exist becomes, to the point where, for practical purposes, only one low frequency can exist at any one time. It's a two cats in a sack situation or like two heavyweight boxers, they both cannot exist in the same ring at the same time and both be champion, there's always a fight and it's often ugly.
E.Q filters for Kick and Bass
I'm assuming that you know the difference between e.q types such as low pass, high pass etc. If not then a quick Google should bring you up to speed.
Bass shelving filter:
Bass shelves in today's plugins can often be unneccesarily complex and confusing offering several different design types ( Bessel, Gurzon, Butterworth etc.) as well as variable Q and variable filter "corner" (cutoff point).
Personally I find this counter productive.
It takes hours of practical experience with a particular e.q. shelf to become aquainted with how it affects different sounds. As an example, back in the day when I used to mix through an analogue console, I found that by using the simple 80 hz low shelf combined with the 18db/oct high pass switch and the semi-parametric low mid control which swept down to 50 hz I could find huge amount of low end shaping possibilities.
Having limitations often helps the one's creativity and ironically, infinite possibilities can actually be a hindrance by aggravating option anxiety as well as the sheer amount of time wasted by auditioning and experimenting with different filter types on each new plug-in.
(btw Bagginz Law bears repeating here. Bagginz Law states that: "The quantity of finished work leaving a producers studio is inversely proportional to the amount of plugins in that producer's plugin folder").
Given this situation, when it comes to learning how to use low shelving e.q, a good approach (and one that I often use) is to leave the Q at default, and set the frequency at 100 hz (if it's not already at 100 hz by default) and simply use the cut and boost control. Also stick to using a plugin that you're familiar working with. Later you can gradually start to use the other controls once you build up a working relationship with how it sounds and what it does.
I find bass shelves really useful to raise or lower the amount of low frequencies by varying amounts. I often end up with small cuts or boosts around < 3db, which is usually a lot if you are affecting that large a range of frequencies.
High Pass (or low cut)
High pass filters are useful for removing low frequencies altogether, rather than just reducing them.
In this context, setting a steep high pass (24db/oct or more) on a bassline channel set very low - around 20 - 35 hz can help to remove subsonics that are otherwise just eating up headroom.
Before you say "but my monitors only go down to 40hz" try it and listen. ( pro monitors quote their low frequency limit as the -3db down point, so they actually do reproduce frequencies below that.)
The effect of filtering out the ultra low subs is actually perceivable and depending on what type of filter and how steep the slope the effect, the result can be really quite pronounced.
Removing some ultra low frequencies which are mainly below the range of the monitors perversely can actually make the volume rise on the channel meters. I'm not exactly why it happens technically, but believe that it has to do with low frequency masking or phase cancelling effects.
Certainly when combining a nice kick together with the bassline channel which has had the ultra low frequencies removed, the end result is two parts tending to lock together a lot better as it minimizes the sub frequencies in each part "fighting" with each other usually by part phase-cancelling each other out. Therefore allowing the kick's subs to breathe.
Bottom line is: removing the unwanted subs from the bassline give more headroom and allows the subs in the kick sound unrestrictedly. You may want to combine this sub cut with a low shelf to reduce the low end a little - again it depends on the sound.
You can of course do it the other way around, by skinnying up the kick instead which I've done myself in several Trance tracks, (and which would be a better approach for say Dub music) but generally speaking I prefer to let the kick carry the sub in Trance.
Parametric Filter
Here's a good tip for how to zero in on frequencies using parametric e.q.s
1. Solo your channel
2. Dial up a large boost (say 8- 12 db) with a narrow q.
3. Now sweep around while listening to find the frequency that you would like to either cut or boost.
4. Once you've found the frequency, then either cut it by lowering the gain to a negative amount or lower the boost amount of that frequency to a smaller amount.
5. Unsolo your channel to place the sound back into it's musical context.
6. Switch the e.q out and back in again to give yourself a reality check as it's very easy to get quickly accustomed to a processed sound. Again, it's important to make any evaluations while it is in the mix, and not while it is in solo mode. Does it sound better? Or not?
On the Kick:
Here's a couple of useful tips for the e.q on the Kick.
1. A small boost with a medium q at around 4 khz will emphasise the "click" of the kick to allow it to not get buried in the mix.
2. If a kick needs some "punch" then a small boost with medium q centred around 120hz - 250hz will give some body. This frequency band gives the kick punch and drive (which often can be what's required) without adding problematic lows.
3. If a kick need some sub added or removed, use the parametric e.q. A low shelf is a bit too crude a tool for this kind of work. Using the parametric tip above, zoom exactly in on the area which needs treatment. Fairly narrow q often works best. You'll need to be precise with the low frequencies because in the dark netherworld of the sub regions, just going from 40 hz - 80 hz is a whole octave. If you find yourself having to boost the low end with a low shelf, then it maybe best to use another kick sample, unless of course you don't have anything better, in which case carry on.
On Bass lines:
With regard to e.q ing the bass line, once you have your basic kick and bassline levels set, don't be afraid to notch out some of the mids with a parametric if you think it sounds better, or you want to make some room in the midrange for other lead stuff.
Conversely don't be afraid to boost away on a parametric band (or two) if it will help give your bassline some definition and help it sit better in the mix.
It's not like the raw saw wave bass sound has to be kept natural.
Obviously you must do your e.q ing of the bassline when the the kick is playing along together with the bass.
E.q.ing the kick and bass group:
Another tip is to e.q the kick and bass group together. I haven't used this for a while but I've used this technique in the past. This can make the kick and bass sound more cohesive. I routinely route my kick and bass to a single group (a buss in Logic speak)
This enables me to apply any processing (filtering effects, e.q.ing, compress, limiting etc. ) to both at once should I so wish. Sending both kick and bass to their own group is a useful habit to get into. I recommend setting up your sequencer template with the routings already in place.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 20:29
the thing is: you're not making elements as a piece of art, you're making a piece of music that includes elements. how they sound together is what people call music.
for example: for most psytrance stuff, my snares end up sounding thin if you put them next to a dubstep or hip hop snare. but if I was to leave those beefy frequencies in there, it would clash with the low mids of my bass, and everything would sound muddy. even the snare would probably sound like some odd fart rather then a clear hitting drum. mixing is about compromise. you can't have it all! only so much frequencies in the spectrum. single hits that sound wonderful? sure, but then you're making sample packs, not music.
very true that sometimes what could sound as a bit bright on it's own is just right for cutting through a more busy mix. also true that with the right source, it only takes so much as shaving of the excesses and bad sounding frequencies while listening in context, and it's done! simple rule: keep it simple.
Hypereal
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Posted : Feb 11, 2014 20:40
frisbeehead nothing to add you understood what I wrote.I am on your boat,sacrifice is necessary to fit sounds in cohesive manner,thats the reality of mixing cant have everyone everywhere.Cheers
NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 12, 2014 00:51
This is what I have after a 10 minutes of tweaking:
Sounds better after download and I did it only with headphones. I know that bass takes a lot of time but I cant erase some ring sound from it. Maybe you have right and I listen to it so much that it start boring me. It is just example thx for your replies and advices. I am keep working on it. Cheers
https://soundcloud.com/nebulosity
PsyTriYe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 12, 2014 03:30
do what u just did... now with out vb1??. and sum notchin,yeh i hear those artifacts. keep at it
and when it comes down to the story (dark fullon) i recommended her....
. I would like to know how to create basslines like fobi.
. Any advice? Thx
. Anyway thx for your reply 
