| Author
|
FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.
|
ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 16:24
|
spindrift,
your comparison is faulty.,
to do this test properly you need to have equal conditions for all things you dont want to measure.,
if one sequencer has problems with 24 bit files then you should not compare that to a sequencer that does not.
otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges!.
the thing that is being tested for (mixer algorithm precision) is basically bitdepth independant.
if you disregard the unavoidable sum roundoff error then the same algorithm deviations apply to 24 bit files and to 16 bit files.
one of the things the tests showed was that there is more than just sum errors. there seems to be some phase changing/lagging/filtering going on.,
that type of 'errors' will also have a big influence on 24 bit files because it scales along with bit depth., so it would be equally present in 16 bits and 24 bits situations.
i dont think there is any reason for NOT using 16 bit files unless you want to hide something.
anyway, my thoughts.,
|
|
|
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 16:51
|
|
I've took 16bit sample, loaded to FL Producer, rendered and got difference from original sample at -90dB meaning Image Line told you bullshit, Thockin. 16bits sample should not be dithered into 16bit. |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 16:53
|
Who works with 16 bit and why?
I would say pretty much any computer less that some three years old can handle 24 bit without a problem.
I really don't see anything to be gained from using 16 bit in practice and for definatly not in a test evaluating the sound engine of a sequencer from the perspective of a producer.
But for me like I said it's completly uninteresting if I can use a mixer with all faders on 0Db. I do not really care if the summing is the reason some software sounds very different from other. I suppose it's not.
But I'm not a developer of audio software and just would be interested in getting some comparasions of how they sound in use.
For sure you could formulate a test doing more than just summing.
But I guess the people that can use their ears is less interested and people who feel they have a theoretical point to prove do the test and in a way to prove their point.
I will not use my sequencer to mix a few 16bit audio tracks at unity gain, so for me the test is not remotly interesting.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 17:16
|
|
Undertow, Thockin, Psyx, Zildoggo and other let's check if rewire or VSt thru other host can solve the problem. Also we need to check if VSTi get this so called by Image Line "dithering". |
|
|
|
BAPHOMET_ENGINE
Baphomet Engine
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
295
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 17:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-12-25 16:53, Spindrift wrote:
Who works with 16 bit and why?
I would say pretty much any computer less that some three years old can handle 24 bit without a problem.
I really don't see anything to be gained from using 16 bit in practice and for definatly not in a test evaluating the sound engine of a sequencer from the perspective of a producer.
But for me like I said it's completly uninteresting if I can use a mixer with all faders on 0Db. I do not really care if the summing is the reason some software sounds very different from other. I suppose it's not.
But I'm not a developer of audio software and just would be interested in getting some comparasions of how they sound in use.
For sure you could formulate a test doing more than just summing.
But I guess the people that can use their ears is less interested and people who feel they have a theoretical point to prove do the test and in a way to prove their point.
I will not use my sequencer to mix a few 16bit audio tracks at unity gain, so for me the test is not remotly interesting.
|
|
Spindrift
Hey man, you said all!!!
And H20 you are a studious man (we admire it)....
Many artists uses FL Studio for sequencing, but... all final masters are on other softwares. Don´t say that we are saying bullshit or nonsense things... send us more of your tests results to prove that you are right!
Or come on.. man go to one studio and tell us who uses FL Studio in professional line to relate us his experiences.
Please be less personal... listen, read and understand... don´t be impulsive.
Best Regards!
-------
Manic Dragon Records
http://www.myspace.com/baphometengine
2to6 Records |
|
|
|
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 18:04
|
We try to stick to facts, you not using facts, that's why my answers are in such manner. Seems you don't get a point of this discussion at all. So i will explain to you and Spindrift. We want to find why and what FL Producer do to output signal compared to other sequencers.
Tests already done prove that FL is non accurate sequencer.
These who use FL Producer and master or/and mix on other software must read this thread as well since it probably explain why FL Producer useless as sequencer or/and sampler at all.
I think you should re read the thread once again to understand where and what we doing. |
|
|
|
BAPHOMET_ENGINE
Baphomet Engine
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
295
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 19:18
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-12-25 18:04, H2O wrote:
We try to stick to facts, you not using facts, that's why my answers are in such manner. Seems you don't get a point of this discussion at all. So i will explain to you and Spindrift. We want to find why and what FL Producer do to output signal compared to other sequencers.
Tests already done prove that FL is non accurate sequencer.
These who use FL Producer and master or/and mix on other software must read this thread as well since it probably explain why FL Producer useless as sequencer or/and sampler at all.
I think you should re read the thread once again to understand where and what we doing.
|
|
Okay!!! 
Output signal, thats the point here!!! 
-------
Manic Dragon Records
http://www.myspace.com/baphometengine
2to6 Records |
|
|
|
thockin
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
114
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 20:37
|
Quote:
|
Imagine there would be a test of car tyres
|
|
No, because this is not car tires. This is fundamentally MATH, and math doesn't wear out at higher speeds (quantum physics excepted).
I'm tired of this silly analogy.
So far, I've been honest about results. I've not hidden anything, or fudged anything. The only thing I've proven is that you'll use any thing to believe what you want to believe. It took an experiment like this to discover that FLS doesn't actually do 24 bit.
Is it less than perfect? Yes. Does it mean your sound will suck? No. You are the reason your sound will suck.
And it was further pointed out that this test is missing a lot of other details.
How accurate is the tempo and beat, for one?
Anyway, I'll get to more of this when I can. I'm busy this weekend.
|
|
|
|
BAPHOMET_ENGINE
Baphomet Engine
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
295
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 21:14
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 21:23
|
Quote:
| You are the reason your sound will suck. |
|
Sure.
I have been producing electronic music for more than fifteen years.
I have used a multitude of analogue desks from neve to behringer, a multitude of digital desks and a multitude of software.
Shame the mixer in fruity is harder to use than a neve desk, since it's targeted to amateurs.
How the hell would they have a chance to get good sound if someone with my experience can't use it properly?
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
BAPHOMET_ENGINE
Baphomet Engine
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
295
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 21:25
|
|
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 21:39
|
|
Spindrift, FL Producers mixer is not harder but much more defective designed. We trying find out how to fix it that's all. |
|
|
|
High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 23:22
|
i really dont think so ,, because fruity is not yet a profissional software program . so this is a mather that whont need anymore question about , fruity is good for does who whant to believe , and they believe that god is they'r neighberhood , and for the outher who stick to professional software programs believe in the profissionalism of what they see in each program they'r work ..
nyquist theorem 
"HIGH PULSE" AKA FUSION OF DARKPSY PROJECTS
http://www.myspace.com/highpulsemusic
http://www.beatbiz.net/artists/High-Pulse <- musiC FOR SELL. |
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 23:44
|
|
Why not do a statistical test ? Make a few mixes of the same audio-files (many channels) in multiple sequencers. Be sure to check the mixes a few days later and make sure they're (about) the same. Put them on your site and let all the experts here decide which mix was made with which sequencer and which one they think is the best. If the experts can't tell the difference, who cares ? |
|
|
|
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 25, 2004 23:52
|
|
We have checked same test on Sonar, Logic and Cubase. Their output signal was clean of addition. We should check Reason as well. Any Reason users wish to help? |
|
|
|
!!