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FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.
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PsYx
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
339
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 04:02
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Just a Q...
How do U export a file in 32bit float ?
I can only export in 16 or 24... |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 05:50
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EYB for some reasno .. fLs cost 200 dollar and logic cost 1500 dollars  , FLS 5 is allready a program very advanced for what it was on version 3 for ex ... but for ex , to make really good masters on music ... humm FLS doen't have the quality enough and the way of doing it like a profissional program . and the sound engine can be a bit iqual but NEVER the same .
so how u call to yourself (FLS lamme) maybe try to spend sometime in outher programs not a few day .. im saying a few months .. then u'll see the real diference ..
cya ..
 "HIGH PULSE" AKA FUSION OF DARKPSY PROJECTS
http://www.myspace.com/highpulsemusic
http://www.beatbiz.net/artists/High-Pulse <- musiC FOR SELL. |
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 12:03
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PsYx: What do you mean, i can't? I set internal processing up to 32bit float in sequencer , so why can't i export it. |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 17:36
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its pretty pointless to export in 32 bits float.,
24 bits has enough qualiy in there to make a good master from.,
every bit you add will double the ammount of information.,
so you can fit 256 16-bit sounds in a 24 bit audio file without losing any quality for any of them.,
i would agree that 16 bits is barely enough to carry full mixes in good quality.,
but if you use 16 bits for only the basic sounds then you already have so much quality in the end mix that its almost pointless to use more.,
that said, processing should preferably be done in 32 bits as processing gives you lots of rounding errors.,
that's why internally the audio engines work with 32 bits floats.,
but that is before mixing it all together.,
once you add all that together your ears will have to cope with a lot more information than with the separate tracks and you will not be able to hear the details ., you just hear the global result,
and in that case 24 bits is more than enough,.
if you get a big difference in results when bouncing to 24 bits and bouncing to 32 bits float then you are either a superman or the soundengine does something wrong with outputting one (or both) of the formats.,
greetos.,
aka., |
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 17:52
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Darkpsy: we about so called "sound engine", we all know that Logic has much more functions than FL. The question was if 1300$ are the difference? You arguments pretty kidish. I think person with artist rank should offer a bit more resposibility in his words.
ZilDoggo: i was told to overdrive sequencer, so i used 32bit float, the question was why i can't export 32bit float as PsyX told?
Test
We record 15mono and 15stereo random frequencies using Sound Forge's FM synthesis which produce together whole frequency spectrum. Sequence exactly the same way these samples in FL Producer 5 and Cubase SX 2, exported in different modes. Signals were different. We assume that even a tiny volume difference can cause it but we couldn't make FL Producer and Cubase exported exactly on same volume there always was a tiny difference.
Test Results
1.FL Producer 5 is less sample precise than Cubase
2.FL sound different from Cubase, signal difference is high end which is a bit decreased in FL near Cubase's
Conclusion
Is it worth 600-1000$ difference? or arguments of sound engine, for us not. The difference is too small. One thing is for sure, sequencers are bit different. |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 17:53
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btw.,
i think this test is good.,
not saying the results are true per se, but the way this guy tested was good.,
it is in fact the same way i did my tests some time ago.,
i tested fruity loops 4 at the time.,
and my results were that FL4 did indeed change the sound,.
so it seems that FL5 has had some changes in the audio engine
good news for fruity people!
greetos.,
aka., |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:07
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"Conclusion
Is it worth 600-1000$ difference? or arguments of sound engine, for us not. The difference is too small. One thing is for sure, sequencers are bit different."
yeah., and this is a different discussion altogether.,
i had that before here on isratrance.,
i did that test some time ago on FL4 and ppl got angry at me cos i showed a difference.,
but in the end, if you are happy with it then there is no discussion., just use it.,
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:09
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darkpsy,
logic 7 pro costs $999 , not 1500
that's a difference of 500 dollar you are talking about!!
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:21
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"ZilDoggo: i was told to overdrive sequencer, so i used 32bit float, the question was why i can't export 32bit float as PsyX told?"
well, overdriving is not a good way of doing it.,
you need to find the lowest common factors in sequencers so you actually ask all sequencers to do the same thing.,
that would be a fair test.,
so, if one of the sequencers doesnt offer 32bit float output then you cannot use 32 bits outputs in the test.,
otherwise you cannot conclude anything about the difference in quality.,
and why you cant output in 32bits float in some sequencers?., well, cos its serious overkill.,
and why do some sequencers offer 32bit float outputs?
cos of the hype (ppl ask for it)
and maybe to hide some bad programming .,.,
anyway,
greets.,
aka., |
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:23
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here the difference, we can't provide whole test because of lack of web space.
audiotests.batcave.net/test.JPG
copy and paste
The difference is 1.5dots which is nice for prise Image Line offers for it's product. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:31
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-21 17:36, ZilDoggo wrote:
every bit you add will double the ammount of information.
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No. That would mean that a 24 bit file is 256 times bigger than a 16 bit file. This is obviously not true.
Adding one bit to a 16 bit word will add 1/16th amount of information. Adding one bit to a 24 bit word will add 1/24th etc etc.
It will double the dynamic range and the amount of possible values but that is a different thing.
UnderTow |
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:35
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Sound Engineers, lol
Isn't dynamic range is sort of information?
Rest of mortal human, we still searching for Logic, Reason, Sonar and Orion users to make the same tests in order to create a chart of sequencers. PM me or Mantik/Kitnam please. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:40
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-21 17:52, H2O wrote:
I think person with artist rank should offer a bit more resposibility in his words.
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Amen to that. There is alot of disinformation being put here (and on other forums) by people that only know half the story...
Quote:
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Test
We record 15mono and 15stereo random frequencies using Sound Forge's FM synthesis which produce together whole frequency spectrum. Sequence exactly the same way these samples in FL Producer 5 and Cubase SX 2, exported in different modes. Signals were different. We assume that even a tiny volume difference can cause it but we couldn't make FL Producer and Cubase exported exactly on same volume there always was a tiny difference.
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As you are using mono and stereo files, are you sure that the panning laws were set the same in both applications? (If they can be changed that is).
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Test Results
1.FL Producer 5 is less sample precise than Cubase
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How do you know it isn't the other way round?
I am not saying that you are wrong but I am curious as to how you came to this conclusion.
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2.FL sound different from Cubase, signal difference is high end which is a bit decreased in FL near Cubase's
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Again, how did you come to this conclusion?
UnderTow |
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:51
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Panning laws are set the same way, -3dB in Cubase and unchecked at FL Producer which is exactly the same.
On picture you can see that FL Producer follow Cubase's signal with 1.5dots lag. If there was no lag at four samples test, i assume the lag is overdrive made one of sequncers or both un precised. For your question, when i said less precise i meant it has lag compared to Cubase. To know exactly what is what we should make these tests on various sequencers to make a standart, then we would decide what is more accurate.
High end felt by ear, loading both of samples into one line at SoundForge without space between. We listened to it on three different monitors and got same idea. Why FL Producer is in lack of high end is because inside of sequencer we heard a bit different signal than after export. So we record using Sound Forge directly and export same sequence. They sounded a bit different.
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PsYx
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
339
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 18:55
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I'd like to do the test in Logic Pro 6.4.3 !!!
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