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FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 01:31
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will be tested to infinity
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Mo-Dul
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
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135
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 02:49
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In my opinion it's more simple then that...
If I use in FL 24bit samples and I export
the final mix in 16bit those samples will
loose from their precision...isn't so?
Peace..
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
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16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 07:34
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Yes Mo-Dul, use 24bit sample process at 24bit and export. |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 07:45
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-17 02:49, Mo-Dul wrote:
In my opinion it's more simple then that...
If I use in FL 24bit samples and I export
the final mix in 16bit those samples will
loose from their precision...isn't so?
Peace..
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Right
if i use in any program 24bit samples and export to 16bit it will loose precision.
Peace
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 17, 2004 14:18
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About the test:
A bit like making a test of tyres only driving 20km/h.
Sure you can tell if one brand handles extremly bad....but it will be damned hard to tell much difference between a couple of normal tyres.
Try them in high speeds and push them to the limit if you really want to tell which ones work best.
About bit-res:
Mixing and processing is not done in 16 bit because you use 16 bit audio.
To retain maximum quality always at least export in 24-32bit to leave it for your own or the labels mastering.
And why use 16bit in the first place?
On my 800mhz/256Mb laptop with a small internal 30Gb HD i never had problems with using 24bit audio.
There is a dilemma involved in using 16bit audio in an application working at higher bit depth (ie all on the market to my knowledge).
When recording to 16 bit you have two options....to dither or not to dither.
If you dither you get many channels with dither mixed together, blown up to normally 32bit float, processed and then truncated down again.
The dither is not intact anymore and worst of all coming from many channels at the same time.
If you don't dither you end up just truncating the the files down to 16bit wich is also not desirable.
Dither is genreally not considered necessary to go down from 32bit float to 24bit fixed so the same problem does not excist if using 24bit only.
So I'd say use 24bit audio and export 24bit unless you maybe use something like a 500mhz machine with 10Gb HD.
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EYB
Noized
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Posted : Dec 17, 2004 15:15
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So it is better to use 24bit then 32bit?
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BAPHOMET_ENGINE
Baphomet Engine
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14
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295
Posted : Dec 19, 2004 05:24
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We work daily with Logic, Cubase and FL Studio... and in our humble opinion we don't listen any big differences on the rendering process of each programs, on the end (all have good quality and good sound engine for audio rendering.)
But with you wanna work with all samples in 24bits you should forget FL Studio.
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Manic Dragon Records
http://www.myspace.com/baphometengine
2to6 Records |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Dec 19, 2004 06:10
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Dec 19, 2004 14:23
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-19 06:10, DarkPsy wrote:
eheh of course .. sx or logic audio  .. forget flstudio for final work .. flstdio is good to learn how to sequencing ehhe
the outher are good to have good quality in the music's
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But funny how some people hear the BIG differences in quality.
So u pros what is the quality u want? Explain to me (a lame fruity looper) what makes sound a quality sound and at which point fruity sound hasn't quality. Maybe u can convince me that fl isn't really a good sequencer (sound engine).
Thanks
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
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352
Posted : Dec 19, 2004 14:46
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I do agree to overload sequencer with channels and auxs to check better both of sequencers but the problem is my host which allows me to use only 800kb files and i have reached monthly bandwitch limit.
Second problem is that ppl tend to say bullshit, it doesn't matter if we will make a test some say without reading the test material would say it is fake or say some nonsense like Baphomet Engine or Analog Xperience. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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1560
Posted : Dec 19, 2004 15:07
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@EYB
It doesn't seem to matter much if you use 24 or 32 bit.
The difference in resolution in a 32 bit float is not as you would expect eight bits more due to the difference in float vs fixed point.
Like I said converting it down from 32 to 24 does not present you with the same difficulties as going from 24 to 16.
It was a few years ago I checked out fruity, but when I did it sounded a bit flat and muddy when starting to get a few tracks running.
One thing that you notice is that the more tracks you have running the more difficult it is to get the kick sound clear and cutting thru in the mix.
What logic gives me would best be described as depth and separation.
I do not have a audiophile ear, but to me the differences is big indeed unless you make minimal music.
And I must say that I don't have an aversion towards non-pro software for some elitist reasons.
I would really like to be able to use orion instead of logic because I like that it does what I need it to but is more intuitive and flowing in usage.
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Dreamthief
Started Topics :
3
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Posted : Dec 20, 2004 09:26
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Bit depth only comes into stuff with dynamic range. with psytrance, where loudness is king, a higher bitrate isn't really that necessary. Granted, you'd have a lower noise floor, but I'd guess since this is a discussion on Fruity Loops, that it would all be in the digital domain, and you'd be working at quite high levels. You'd be better served by upping your sample rate to 48/88.2KHz if you really want to improve the sound quality, but I really don't think you'd get that much benefit from it.
It's a law of diminishing returns, 96KHz, is pretty insanely high. Think about it. It's sampling the waveform 96,000 times per second. And 16 bit gives you something like 108dB dynamic range. Each additional bit gives you about 6dB extra range. But, that's only at the bottom. How often are you playing sounds that are over 108dB from clip?
I work at 24bit 44.1KHz, for things that I record. My ears aren't trained well enough to spot a massive difference between that and 88.2KHz, let alone 96KHz.
Logic internally uses 32bit processing in its sound engine, this will then dither down to either 16bit, or 24 bit when it's outputting sound.
There also seems to be some confusion with dithering. Strictly speaking, you should never dither your tracks before mastering, as dithering is a method of aliasing. That is, it's meant to give you a better representation of an analogue signal, but it does this by using shaped noise. If you do it before mastering, you will add artifacts to your sound, these will then be amplified when mastered.
Buuuuut. Who cares? shove it through the L2 mate, slam that track right into the wall. She'll be right.
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Dreamthief
Started Topics :
3
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47
Posted : Dec 20, 2004 09:27
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By the way, Spindrift. I love your music so much. It makes me happy. 
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 20, 2004 15:46
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10x for the kind words...it makes me very happy if I can make someone happy
About both bit depth and sample frequency it seems to me it's a quite common notion that bit depth=dynamics and sample frequency=audio frequency.
That is of course theoretically correct, but it's more to it than that.
Listen to a 8bit sample. Reducing bit depth does not do the same thing as adding a compressor only.
I makes the sound grittier because the waveform is less smooth as well.
Same goes for sample frequency. The effect of lowering that is not like using a low-pass filter.
Think about that at 44.1k anything close to the limit of around 20k will be sampled two times per cycle making for a very rough representation.
Of course above 16 bit and 44.1k the differences is not so audible so thats been accepted as a standard.
The reason the bit depth is of higher priority than sampling frequency when mixing is the extra headroom you get. Even if you use only very compresssed sounds they will sound gritty if you would not work at very topped levels. Having higher bit depth when you mix is giving extra room to play with making it less hard works with the levels.
Higher sample frequency will give you less errors in the high frequencies.
I would say that there is no point working in 48k though. Any gain is outweighted by having to resample it back to 44.1
So stick with 44.1 or use 88.2 or 96 if you like to step up.
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
352
Posted : Dec 21, 2004 02:28
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The new test has been made, 15mono and 15stereo 32bit float/96khz samples mixed in two sequencers afterwards exported at 32bit float.
Soon results, waiting for web space to upload. |
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