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Trance Forum Л Л Forum Production & Music Making - FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.

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FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.

H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics : 16
Posts : 352
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 16:51

You real stronghold i see,
For producer who use FL Producer it is intresting to know why it generates noise as well to know how to avoid it, because non of us want to change sequencers like t-shirts. They cost money and time to learn, you know.
Critics are welcome for test, but not for FL abilities, you critisize FL Producer abilities much more than critisize the tests.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 17:24

Ok, then I know.
It was mentioned that the intent was to make THE test to point people to if they said there was a difference between sequencer A and B, and that you wanted help from users of various sequencers.
Thats why I got interested in the first place.

If it is a test to learn how to avoid the noise generated by fruity loops I can only wish you best of luck with that. I be very fascinated to read about if you actually mange to do that but stay out of the testing and discussion around it.

(``З.И(``З.И(``З.ИИ.З`Д)И.З`Д)И.З`Д)
Ћ .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... Л
(И.З`Д(И.З`Д(И.З`Д``З.И)``З.И)``З.И)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth

H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics : 16
Posts : 352
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 17:35

Will you provide web space to make such test? When we did a four channels test noone realy downloaded samples and flp and crp files to check by own. NO one cares, the only one who does is you. DO you see someone else talking here. Suggesting right, let's continue further. Do you offer to make tests on Orion which you use? Did you downloaded Thockin's samples at all to test Orion and give here a results. Did you visit mirc channel or forum? We all can talk but "with talk you can't buy a food", only actions. I have a great respect to four guys(Undertow, Thockin, Psyx and Cane) who done this tests and bullshit on them instead of joining and test your sequencer is an ease option i think.
Sorry for being rude but you talked too much here. I think you should understand that it is xmas and we can't work daily now at the end of the testing sure will be graphics with examples of what we done. Orion won't be there for sure.
We have now use who use Sonar, Logic, Cubase and FL Producer, noone else pmed me other guys in order to help us, that's all i think.

orange
Fat Data

Started Topics : 154
Posts : 3918
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 17:53

its like old days people said... ohh this synth (harware) is better sounding than the other !! nono the other is better then this one caus its bla bla!! better then the other ... and the bla bla goes on the thing is to make good tunes and YES different sequencers have different personalities like synths and compressors and all the music equipement the thing is to take the best things from them and meke nice tunes!!!!

iff someone tell me here that there is a seq that mekes drumm parts and rythem sections fester then fruity i will cry

or iff there is ither seq that handles midi better then cubase i cry again

or maybe someone cann sey that logics or protools audio engine is is not the best im crying again!!!

and how many other programmes do some music stuff very good who nows ???

i think the best tool for you is the tool you learned better stick on that and make music

the rest is just bla bla!!

orange wishes you all a happy new year

http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 17:59

You are right, I seem to be the only one here who rather make a test about how the sound diffrentiate in various sequencers.
Since I never understood the purpose of the test as it was carried out now it was no reason for me to participate.
Why you want me to test orion or live if the test is about how to avoid noise being generated by fruity?

I am more than willing to provide webspace and formulate test guidelines for a test that would compare the sound of sequencers in a realistic way.
But since I'm apperently alone in seeing a need for that kind of test, why waste my time?

H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics : 16
Posts : 352
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 18:20

Spindrift
Then formulate a test, find crew and make it. I try to do so but what i get is individuals work.
We like to make comparison chart of all sequencers. I hope you know if thread's name is "FL Producer comparison" it would speak about FL Producer. We all open for ideas.
The purpose of the test was to check output signal for identity. This is the first test made in chain of tests we will make.
Orange
I tried not to respond for silly remarks, but as Thockin said "morons should not enter this thread at all".

Cane

Started Topics : 0
Posts : 47
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 19:39

Due to xmas, the project is frozen. Formulate your tests then post them here. Purpose of project is to test sequencers, create a comparison chart on web site and find solutions to different problems each sequencer possibly have. Means every musician could read with joy our information to decide whereas certain sequencer suits needs of the producer or not.
I beg for those who intend to ruin this project by silly remarks to open new thread to express their emotions there.

Cane.

ZilDoggo

Started Topics : 4
Posts : 663
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 19:53

Quote:

On 2004-12-26 16:33, Spindrift wrote:

I keep discussing this because I think the test could be interesting and helpful, but as it's carried out now it's not. Thats a shame, but yes...I'll leave you to it and quit winching.

so how do you suggest the test should be carried out?.,

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 20:39

My intention is not to ruin the test.
Like I said I would not have minded to help out with this project. Unfortunally I found out that the people involved neither have manners or a common concensus of what they are doing and why that they can explain.
Apperently I am a moron, silly and suck at producing according to the people involved in this project because I like to know:
1. What is the purpose of the test
2. What is the point is with testing 16 bit files

Silly things to ask according to you....well for me it would be necessary to agree on before starting the test.
Good luck with "finding solutions to different problems each sequencer possibly have" and your future as software developers.

H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics : 16
Posts : 352
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 20:51

SPindrift do you make fun? I don't get you, who call you a moron, silly. It refer to other persons who say things without basis.
For million time.
PURPOSE OF TEST WAS TO CHECK OUTPUT OF SEQUENCERS, this is a small test is large chain of tests awaits.
WHO USED 16BIT, for god sake? THOCKIN'S SAMPLES ARE 24BIT, if you was intrested in test at all you was the first to check. The results of test are 24bit files.

What Zildoggo say is, if Image Line claim their sequencer is 16bit so to get equal results we should check at 16bit.

Stop making it, it is not funny anymore.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 21:24

Read thru the thread and you find the moron and silly parts without me mentioning names.
The only ones being silly and behaving like morons was the people using those words themself.

There is a very good basis for saying that fruity does not sound good.
The basis is called using your ears instead of thinking you know all about how the software works and hence not be asked to listen.

If the test is about checking the output of sequencers you don't look for the lowest common denominator to get equal results.
The interesting part would be the differences when using the software rather than finding out that if you degrade the standards can make them sound the same...no?

Sure I have not followed the tests because from what I can see in this thread it's more about trying to prove that some part of the sound engine in fruity is identical to all other products.
I only seen arguments that testing using truncated 16 bit audio IS relevant and some very different definitions of what the purpose of the test is.

If I once again get fed up with people saying that the reason I can't get good sound using some software is because I suck at producing I will set up a proper test.
For now though, (if you can stop replying to my silly remarks) I leave you guys to try to prove your theoretical points and find solutions how to fix flawed software.
I don't need to solve any problems with logic, but please make Live sound good as well and I'll be eternally grateful.
So ....good luck guy's.

H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics : 16
Posts : 352
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 21:54

Agressive, sacrastic and provocative. Nice.
One thing i will tell you, you show us as wannabe mathematicians when we all produce music here as well as you. We trying to change when you do nothing, not even critisize, since critism is on help purpose you just use it to prove your artist ego. Cool, trust you ears, we will have less competition in music scene.
Good luck to you also.

Trip-
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics : 101
Posts : 3239
Posted : Dec 26, 2004 22:19

Spindrift,
it's rather silly checking a few sequencers using 24 bit when one of them doesn't support 24bit - common denominator as u said - not apples and oranges.

That's prolly the simplest way one can see why this particular test is done in 16bit.

Is that something unbelievably hard to cope with? That's the simplest logic... and im positive you can understand it perfectly. I hope this point is cleared out and we all live happily from this moment on.

Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 27, 2004 00:31

If they are apples and oranges it's no point in testing them...is it.
I think for most people they are not.
You put in some notes, move some blocks around and pull some faders and out comes sound.

It's rather silly to test logic using truncated 16 bit files if you really want to get an idea about how the sound differs in practical use I'd say.
Rather use the 32 bit that fruity uses I would think.

But look in the help file for fruity.
http://www.flstudio.com/help/

Quote:

FL Studio also natively supports 24-bit integer wave files.

Either that or the developer is lying.

To take the advice of the developer on how to make the test, contradicting the information in the help file from image line, would be like contacting logic on how to make sure the test show a difference.
I don't see why you would do that unless you like to skew the results.

IMO you should not use 16 bit audio because of the truncate/dither dilemma and that seems to be a accepted notion.
So I still do not understand what you hope to find out by testing it like that.
Without close cooperation with image line you are lead to belive that you CAN import 24 bit audio.
I would do that or use 32 bit if I used fruity.

If you do know with inside information that they are lying about it's capabilites, in all fairness contact all other manufacturers of the sequencers you test and listen to their guidelines of how they think the test should be made.
I'm sure not everyone would agree that using truncated 16 bit files is suitable.

Test how good audio you can get from the sequencers not how bad audio you can get if you use the LOWEST common denominator when testing.

Cane

Started Topics : 0
Posts : 47
Posted : Dec 27, 2004 01:40

To get advice from tobacco companys how to test cigarettes for cancer? Nice idea, we will use it.

Copied from FL history.
4.1.2 (1/07/03)
Sampler channels now load 24Bit integer wave files.
http://www.e-officedirect.com/FLStudio/documents/SUB_103.html

It's says load, not internally process. So please do not mistake others.

Trance Forum Л Л Forum Production & Music Making - FL Producer 5 Cubase SX 2 comparison.

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