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File-Sharing?
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 15:36
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I just started Downloading/stealing music last week 
Haven't done this in many many years.. Ah, feels good to save some money.
But a couple of problems so far..
1) It's crap not to get all tracks in one album with art, listing and all that which makes a original purses so much more special and enjoyable (and “clean”, Mp3’s feel so dirty and impersonal).
2) I can't find music from artists that I REALY want.. Seems that good music is hard to get for free when DL'ing. – All I can find is the more popular acts, and all/most good quality acts are missing (and goody oldies that no longer can be bought on CD's).
Maybe it’s because I’m an amateur and using wrong P2P’s?
All this to side, I found a Torrent with all “Destination Goa V/A’s” … I was thrilled 
I don’t care if people want to Dl or not, but I as many think one should buy the music that one feel in love with.
DL seems to me to have both positive and negative (like EVERYTHING else in life ja).
There are plenty of elements on both side, but I can mention a few..
Positive:
- Music is spread, will lead to more recognising and eventual booking at parties.
- A person like my self would never had discovered a passion for psy-trance if it hadn’t been for one night long time ago when I needed music to listen to while eating shrooms for the first time. Infected Mushroom seemed at the time like a name that would fit my new born experience. And oh boy did I hit the nail on the head. Been a super lover fan ever since, and I've bought my share of albums ever since.
- Information should be free (quote Spindrift) – Money isn’t everything and should NOT be a main factor for you, the producer, label manager .. "It", the music should be your passion, your love, your universe - Dont just do it for the fame, the ego boost, the fake... We all need a few bucks to stay alive. But come on, don’t ever make it a prioritized action. Money is the destruction of all that is good.
Negative:
- Psy-trance got such a BIG name worldwide that a huge amount of people starting liking it for all kind of reasons. – This resulted in thousands of fans releasing music, starting labels and ect. The whole pure scene got watered out.
- Music industry is loosing money, and so are the producers and label (ha-ha!)managers.
- My two points at the start of the post.
Thank God for good parties 
All original - http://www.discogs.com/collection?user=psytones
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
193
Posts :
3858
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 15:41
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IT'S A TWO WAY ROAD. SO U MUST CHOOSE YOURS...
CD´s are not exdpensive, I agree.
But with Psy-Trance growing so fast today, there's a new release evry day.
So, how the hell am I supposed to buy them all, to figure out wich ones I really liked??
For that, you can try samples at Saikosounds among others.
But still, in many places, we can not affor to buy original cds, cause of taxes, and even money exchange, like in Brazil, a CD costs 2.23 x it's original price in Dollars. That's not cheap, if u now what I mean.
One thing is for sure: I don't have enough income to buy original cds. I often buy trakcs @ Beatport etc.
But I'd be very happy to be able to buy orignal cds in the future.
And I do agree with DETOX. Music and movies industry, r really suffering with this. But that is also cause of the high amount of cds/movies that are produced. Myself, I can stand ataying away from a Movie Theater. It has it's diferential...
Regards!
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 15:52
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why do you need 100 albums pr month? Buy ten and learn them inside out. Dont be so eager to have ALL.
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suomi guy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
347
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 15:54
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About the promotion thing, lots of artists release their music to the net at the start, and there is nothing wrong with it. It comes wrong when official albums get to the net pirately, it's not about promotion at all, cause you already can know about them on the databases sites and shops. And no one is saying ppl should buy EVERY album they listen to, that's what downloads are good for, so you can listen to it and if you really like it you should buy it. But most of the ppl don't buy even 1 cds out of hundreds they download, and thats sucks.
spytooned psytones great list, wish mine will grow that size too, but meanwhile here's my originals list.
http://www.discogs.com/collection?user=paranormal
 "My single one to cross the ways that have heart, any way that has heart. That way I cross, and the only test that is worth is to cross all its length. And that way I cross watching, watching, out of breath"
Don Juan |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
Posts :
8649
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 15:59
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 07:09, Element of Time.net wrote:
Could there possibly be a direct correlation between lack of sales and the decline of 'quality' in music in our scene?
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It's definitely the reason why i stopped buying Psy releases.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 16:08
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Before you had a total of 15 releases, and 15 of these where good.
Today you got a total of 370 releases, and 15 of these are good.
See my math point? You can find just as, or more quality albums today, but you have to dig through more dirt to find them.
And lack of sales? In grand total, I would imagine that psy-trance is selling more then before .. thinking pure quantum, not quality.
Might be wrong, but it makes sense in my head. ^^
hm, it's like the music industry is a empty glass, you fill the glass with music, when you get to greedy, the glass will get so full that it stops rising but it goes down, running over the edge .. down down..  .. Action and consequents .. the music industry is buttfucking it's own ass. Serves them well to go down, down...
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 16:14
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Do you pay for your computer and internet connection?
Do you buy drugs when you go partying?
Do you go and watch a movie or rent a DVD?
Do you buy the latest Spacetribe T-shirt or other expensive clothes?
Do you go out to a Restaurant once in a while?
Do you buy cakes and candy?
Do you visit MacDonald's or BurgerKing once in a While?
Do you own a car?
Do you go on Holidays?
If yes to just some of these questions then there's no excuse for you not to buy some music too once in a while. There's no excuses at all and all the excuses here about "the music is no good" etc. etc. etc. are just very bad lame excuses covering up your bad consciences.
There are amazing music out there. All you got to do is look for it and BUY it!
And please. A 2 min sample is more than enough to get a good picture of how a track is. It's just a bad excuse to get some music down on the harddisk.
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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Aida Noridania
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
126
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 20:22
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if i count well: i got here some 10000 tracks downloaded mostly sets or fullcd's that i searched in vain in the local stores
me: "do you got Tzolk'in from flint glass"?
storekeeper: "what is that? what genre is that?"
me *explenation*
storekeeper "sorry it's not something we will order as you are the only one that asked"
and for a lot of cd's the same story
some of the downloads i got the cd's after a quest of a few years some are still in search
and a lot of the downloads are from before Itunes when you couldn't buy independant tracks
sorry i don't buy a CD for 15 euro for just one track i like count out: 10000 times 15 euro
looks like i could buy me a supercomputer and glassfiberconnection with all that money sounds ways better then a recieved old comp i use now and the 70 euro's for a hard drive to store the mp3's on
and i am sorry a 2 min sample is for me not saying how a track sounds... often they sample just the peak of the track which sounds good but then when i hear the whole track i got a deceit as the rest was then just the same....
nope i try before i buy and when a cd is good i go to the shop and buy it even if then the cd costs 25 euro...
what i believe more is that the incomes are more "spread" out to lots of labels, instead of the former big labels... i am sure that despite of the downloads that the global industry income is rising... the rise is just that the less known labels got heard and their music got the 3% loss the big players claim to have had for 2006...
do you want to spend 15 euro for just one track? i don't
i ask for quality as that's what i will always buy but quantity? i am not a one group fanatic so if one makes one good track and it's not legally available...
well then the "free way" sad but apparantly sometimes a necessity
it's time labels and managers LISTEN but instead of listening they persist in their error... too bad
and yes before shooting on me i DO buy CD's too, from the artists i like and a lot of artists wouldn't had sold me their cd if napster/audiogalaxy/kazaa didn't had existed
however to download and then sell it as pirate copies is another story... that's something i don't support nor would do but that's also another topic right?
edit: in the end didn't we do the same with radioprograms and compact casettes? instead of screaming, the labels should know that in time it was with tapes just the same thing... only not that visible as with mp3's nowadays... no situation is stronger then a heart that dares to love
so may the force of life light and love be with you |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 20:37
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There is a logic in some members arguments I simply can not follow.
You say because of the flooding of many in your opinion low quality CD's you stopped buying CD's and rather download CD's for free (some do download paying too thank god).
In my logic if I do not like a product I simply don't touch it. BUT if I like it I buy it. It's really very simple.
I do not look at a new T-shirt and think. "Hmmmm it's not really what I want so I will just take it and not pay for it because since the designer wont get my money anyway then there's no harm done".
If I do not like the T-shirt I simply do not touch it.
Then you can say.."well then the artists wont sell anyway and then there's no harm done". .... You are absolutely right about the sales and that's how it's always been. Some artist sell some don't! BUT the harm is that IF you download the music for free or rip it and DO enjoy it and keep it on your computer then you are leeching on someone's work without paying for it.
I guess that's todays dilemma. Etic and moral.
And yes some artists do get gigs and get paid quite well. But the majority are those who already sell music quite well  The rest don't get many offers due to many sad facts so is it not ok that those who enjoy their music also support them just a little?
After all. I doubt anyone here would appriciate an artist walking up to them and steal their new bought iPod just because the artist think "Hey i dont really like the iPod so much that I am willing to buy it but I'll just grab it for fun - No harm done"
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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coSmiIic r080t0n3
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
Posts :
2340
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 21:30
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The bottom line is it is stealing. Now the grey area comes with who are you stealing from.
Stealing from the artist = bad, how they gonna entertain you next time?
Stealing from the label = f**k em, if we're talking mainstream they are already fleecing the artist anyway.
Now, the Psytrance scene seem suffers more than most from this - MP3 and CD decks being well established during it's more popular phase.
The bottom line is - if SOMEBODY doesn't buy it the artist cannot make it. Simple as.
And the labels we're talking here are not huge multinationals throwing scraps to the artist. Most psytrance labels are small affairs with good and honest agreements between themselves and the artist - fuck, most of the labels are OWNED AND RUN by Psy Trance artists.
My vote with piracy has always been - try it out, if you like it - buy it. I'd much prefer the music I like in it's uncompressed form anyway.
It, like many things, is a double edged sword as far as the artists go. It enables you to reach out and influence far more peeps than if everyone had to purchase their own copy but then you gotta eat too.
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It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution. We've reached a certain point, but we're not moving any more.
Ken Kesey |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 22:00
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I don't really care if there's a grey area in the term of stealing or not.
When I sit and work on a Album 8-12 months or longer just to see it spread all over the internet within hours after it's release and I see people licking my behind telling me that the music is amazing on e-mails, forums etc. while at the same time I sell almost nothing or very little and also do not get any gigs because I do not follow the trend of 150 Bpm Fullon or dark trance. Then I think I or any other artists have the right to get pissed off and also dissapointed.
This is a hypotetic situation yet very realistic.
I am no longer personally involved in releasing trance.
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 22:36
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 23:54
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The thing is: There is good music being release, you just have to search for it between the huge amount of garbage being released.
If you really like music, you can search and find these few good releases.
Read reviews while listening to the samples or ask for advice from people who you know have good taste. These ways are shortcuts for you to find music that will make you smile.
Nobody will stop no one from downloading. But if you really like the music you'll buy at least some of it, because then you get the full artcover and a real colorful CD with maximum quality music inside.
Also please use the search, this was discussed a zillion times... 
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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coSmiIic r080t0n3
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
Posts :
2340
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 21:15
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Doomsayers said legit download sites would never work because people can get them for free. But they are doing a roaring trade because most people understand that it costs money unfortunately, however noble your thinking. And I don't think that's entirely down to the RIAA's desperate attempts to scare file sharers.
When you can get a decent studio to give you the time for f**k all then maybe doing it for the love would work.
The main problem at the moment is copyright law that was written without this technology available. A similar thing is hitting photo developers at the moment - if you take a professional looking digital image to a high street developer he may just refuse you - because he has no guarantee that YOU OWN the image and that you haven't stolen copyrighted material. If they develop it for you they are contrevining copyrihgt law and setting themselves up for litigation.
Mad but that's the way it is.
The net is the greatest thing to happen to the aspiring artist - never has it been easier to reach potential fans, and hopefully customers. The dichotomy is - you use the net to gain a fan base and to get the word out, using a site and downloadable music but, you need to go full time and earn a living and then you want to be able to protect your living.
I'm pretty ambivalent as far as file-sharing goes - I have no desire to be Hitler - as long as people are aware of the reality - and if you like, buy
Additonal -
Also bear in mind that piracy in general is what is driving forward Digital Rights management technology and M$'s Trusted Computing. This will involve you needing a valid licence for anything you do on the PC - you wont be able to read someone elses emails on your machine but you wont be able to listen to a tune unless you have the appropriate Digital Rights and Trusted Computing will not allow you to run pirate software on your machine - it will be stopped in hardware. The nanny state will become a hardware add-on in your machine.
All this is being stealthilly introduced under the banner of stopping piracy
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It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution. We've reached a certain point, but we're not moving any more.
Ken Kesey |
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Aida Noridania
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
126
Posted : Feb 11, 2007 21:37
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while then the code they so proudfully issued as uncrackeable was cracked within a few days.....
those who are against downloading... in time never used the famous little tapes? i did and i considder downloading just the same thing
how funny it is to see so many tracks when you type "psychedelic"?
now how hard is it to just play radio online? how hard is it to record audiostreams from the net? it's all as easy as recording with a tape
i'm sure those who are against the downloading stuff are just forgetting what they did with tapes
you can't buy everything
and i don't buy a whole CD for one track some people are not just fans that don't care that the other tracks are less good, some people just want that track... not the CD that one track and internet is giving them that wish....
time to evolve guys and face that fact
things get acessed by more people thus also by more people that simply can't afford to pay every CD that they like face it computerhardware is cheaper then to buy the amount of CD's for what you store as mp3's in time it was cheaper to keep track with what was released on the radio, as then you coulod just compile your own "LP" compilations by clicking record and pause/stop
and last but not least: not every internet surfer has rights to posess a credit card (like me) so i got no paypal nor buy possibilities on the net unless they accept transfers by bankaccounts
and believe me this is for at least 50% of the surfers the case
maybe these facts aren't in play in other countries, but here they are and i would not be surprised that belgium is on that aspect not an exception!
many people forget that and in that sense there is a shift in the filesharing event too
i started with Napster, it had next to the filsharing also an artist section (it was my first promotion idea too) so lots of the cd's i got from there are unreleased or were limited editions that got spread out so the any way to buy them was back then being lucky someone near you had that special limited edition for sale so you had these next to the very popular pop music you hear 5 times a day on the radio 
it's there that i discovered autechre's other work besides incunabula (got now even amber on a brandnew vynil found for 30€ and of course i had to buy it)
then also what there was (as you could chat in napster) always the search for artists of a certain limited edition compilation... it was a search and share and often we discussed about buying that cd it went often like "i am sure when you heard this you will buy their CD"
later that evolved in less easy to get bootlegs and live recordings from concerts of several groups, you also found radio recordings from technodj's etc etc... in fact stuff you couldn't get was back then almost 70% of the filesharing...
this changed though around 2003 as then the influx of all the popsongs became bigger (this was after the napster shutdown... the ideology somehow changed and the filesharing became more like a "punishment" like "okay you shut napster down we reply with mass scale downloads and sharing of every artist... it's like it had just the reverse effect, which is by every trial more and more sensible...
and this makes it go into a loop
as the most stuff i download are still live concerts from groups that are usually recorded (bootlegs)
that are things you don't find in stores, only on filesharing programs....
and what do i share? DJ sets and their tracklists
so bear in mind that filesharing systems started as a sharing of less common tracks and sets instead of the common stuff you find nowadays
and still 70% of all the mp3's i got are such bootlegs they are then just a bit more then just a file on a disk as back then it was a download that could take sometimes a month
and i think (maybe idealistic thought i don't know) that a lot still go on the kazaa/other networks for this reason as well as that's why i still go now: to search for live bootlegs and limited editions that aren not in release anymore...
no situation is stronger then a heart that dares to love
so may the force of life light and love be with you |
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