| Author
|
FAT
|
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Mar 8, 2011 20:10
|
In case you missed it...
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-08 13:20, disco hooligans wrote:
High passing the kick and bass is also an integral part of synthesis,
|
|
Which to be fair would have you assume I use the artifacts of high passing, as part of getting the sound I want.
To be more precise I would also like a steep HPF that induces no artifacts to the sound.
And I do not think I have a superior knowledge of breaks. I just made a few tracks that got released.
What you found that works from your knowledge of filter design, I never contradicted. I merely asked if there is a steep filter that does not change the sound. As we all want things that sound musical as well as things that are transparent.
You simply assumed I only want transparent sounding steep HPF, which is not the case.
Peace out.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
|
|
|
daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Mar 8, 2011 20:35
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 8, 2011 21:28
|
the wave ssl chanel strip is not bad for the low end and about everyhting else too, used it in the past with great result , but it s not neutral.
linear phase can be very transparent but can sound dull too , not sure you will hear any ringing as long as don t use sharp Q , it can be a great option for the low end ,the phase change timing and timing are crucial with the psytrance kick and bassline thats a reason why phase eq is used as part of the "synthesis"imo. i find a good linear phase filter is more transparent and natural sounding but they all affect the sound in a way or in a other ,sometimes it s welcom ,and some other times it can give more benefit than compromise... |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 8, 2011 22:07
|
http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_filtrate_le.htm
for the ones using pc you can try this plug for highpass filtering and a/b it to your phase filter , good linear phase tend to sound more like the source havent been processed (as long as you stay reasonable )while phase filter hp color a lot the sound (from my experience it s ever it s clean but change timings resluting ina less tight sound, or it s not neutral at all but timing are ok),it s a reason why linear phase is prefered for some tasks at mastering ,for some stuff it s more natural and sound more like the source havent been processed.
a/b with this eq and it should be evident what the phase shift does to your sound (i dont mean it s bad thing, you might be looking just for this)
imo for bassline where it s all about tightness and timing linear phase can have his place (you can still use a mix of both ,phase eq for notches for example if u like to use some or for some large boost it can sound better depending the source )
|
|
|
|
daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Mar 8, 2011 23:26
|
yeah i know
its called latency ...i do use that one but only at the end.
the reason i ask that is because the monofilter have no latency or just a smart compensation...
anyway
just asked if anyone tried it out yet for that purpose 
as long as your bass doesn't dissapear i guess its cool. hehehe
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
|
|
|
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 00:26
|
on the linear phase issue ...
google 'linear phase pre ring' and two of the first three threads you'll come up are a gearslutz (well known DSP guru site) thread titled 'Why is pre ring on linear phase bad?' and this one
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/fp/Linear_Phase_Really_Ideal.html
highlighting how in a filter with equal magnitude response, Linear Phase is demonstrable worse due to pre-ring than minimum phase.
Think, do you really want to hear harmonic components of a percussive or lead element, before it is played? That is what Linear Phase EQ will do for your mix.
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 00:28
|
yes pick your poison , depending the task one might work better .
what i m wondering is at what level this pre ringing hapen (might depends the Q value and the eq used)cause it never bothered me when i used lp eq or if it hapened maybe i just back off the setting to be more reasonable , dunno ... |
|
|
|
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 00:29
|
Quote:
|
I merely asked if there is a steep filter that does not change the sound.
|
|
Nice. I'm quite certain you know this is retarded. What are you playing at?
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:17
|
i quote Lupo at gearslutz, it s a user with good technical knowledge, it s just to explain the timing thing i was talking above:
The equalizer works by moving certain frequencies/velocities back and forwards in time. Transients are collections of various frequencies that combine to a larger peak at one instant. Moving some of those frequencies in time can smear the transient, in the sense that it's not as taught a bunch of energy as it used to be. It's literally spread out in time, as the impulse response hints at.
this is thet last thing you want in your bassline if you are after a very tight sound ,it s not that subbtle...linear phase don t exhbit this, it can result in a tight and more defined sound depending on what and how it s used, the linear phase artifacts may be more suited than phase eq. both have strenght and weakness that is good to use to get the best out of the 2 technologie .
if linear phase was that bad it wouldn t be used so much in mastering. |
|
|
|
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:31
|
He doesn't have good technical knowledge; as the stamford link shows, Linear phase EQ exhibtits this character to a greater degree than minimum phase, because it pre-rings any and all transients! Ring after the signal is masked by the signal itself. Both Linear and Minimum phase EQ exhibit this characteristic. Linear phase exhibits pre-ring in addition to post ring, ie, you can hear it working before the signal in what in all likelihood should be a period of silence - I can't think of anything worse for audio!
Linear phase results in a less tight, but more transparent sound! That is the sound quality payoff!
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:35
|
|
lol he have good knowledge to me but i m a noob... on linear phase it dont sound like the frequncies are moved in time to me , the sound can stay very tight |
|
|
|
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:36
|
Listen harder. if there is one thing I can assure you, it is that every single linear phase EQ is moved in time - that is why non of them are 'real time' - they all induce latency exactly because they do delay the signal. Another reason not to use them!
For a really clear example of how bad a linear filter can sound, and exactly what it does to the sound, check out the linear Phase EQ on the pro-q. I love the non linear phase modes, but the linear phase modes all pre-ring savegely... and all linear phase filters do. It is just how they work! .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:37
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-09 01:36, Speakafreaka wrote:
Listen harder.
|
|
dude you always try to play smart... but i know what i hear when i mix , in case you dont know linear phase equing is used by some of the most talented mastering engeinners all around the world , so maybe you know better than them? or you are trolling |
|
|
|
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:42
|
I design filters.
Should I reign in my knowledge so you feel better about yourself?
I'm trying to share knowledge. You might not like how I do it, but that is up to you. I am right on this point, I have backed up my point with evidence ... what the fuck else does it take for you to climb down? You know I know what I'm talking about - I've even gone to the point of finding other informed evidence to back up what I'm talking about, despite the fact I really don't give two shits whether you accept my opinion one way or the other. Its your productions dude!
Bluntly, I think I know more than most of the mastering engineers I've met about filter design, yes. I think the evidence over the years supports this claim too.
I don't try and play smart ... I just present what I know to be true in unequivocal terms. I am smart ... but I always try and help other people with whatever knowledge I have - that is why I release my filter designs for free to the community.
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 01:44
|
|
thanks to share knowledge but dunno maybe you should listen more to the sound , cause that timing thing is not subbtle ,your pre ringing hapen maybe at - 70 db.... i have no idea ,i checked this in the past but dont remember, depending the source and how the eq is used to not exhibit these problems it can sound fine ,while i think phase and timing like lupo explain can be way more a problem sometimes. it may be a personal thing ,about taste maybe |
|
|
|
