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FAT Sounding Groove !!
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 12:12
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hey guys wassup ?
i hope every1 is doing 5n ...
ok guys , i was listening to astral proejction - nilaya [ melicia rmx ] and the basic groove [ chh , ohh , snare , shaker , kick ] sounds really fat !
now normally i take a sinlge sample of chh , ohh , snare , shaker and assign them to different channels and mix ...
but not sounding soo good 
so am i doign sumthin wrong ? or are there any techniques tht i dont know ??
should mulitple samples be used ???
pls lemme know guys ...
plur ... boom !
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTPJuMSwzUQ |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
932
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 12:16
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 12:18
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Quote:
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On 2004-09-12 12:12, Global Trance Network wrote:
should mulitple samples be used ???
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Yes.
You should also compress the entire percussion as one group. Eqing will help as well.
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 13:08
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Don't work with delays on percussion, don't compress the entire percussion group, don't do any 'fattening' effects on the drumloop at ALL.
First make a basic sequence. Then comes the most important part - GET THE RIGHT SOUNDS FOR IT. Keep on replacing the sounds until you think it can't sound any better. Then you start to EQ things so they fit better with your bassdrum and bassline - basically with every element that is more dominant than the loop itself. Get all the samples into the volumes that fit the sequence and sample selection best, then you can start working on the group - apply dynamic effects like noise gates, and compressors, keeping in mind that these might alter carefully planned velocity work. This should give you a clean and fairly fat sound. If you are working with monitors, this is where you export the loop to audio (along with as many improvisations as you want).
Only at the very last stages of production should you fatten this up with delays and reverbs, after you made sure that this drumloop doesn't clash with the sounds that play with it, and change the settings on this so that it fits the track best (and creates a minimal amount of db peaks and anti-phasing if you're a perfectionist).
Of course, you can take shortcuts. Sometimes those work very nicely. But the best would be cramming your sound by changing volumes and EQs on each element until they fit, not through crude effects unless you want a purposefully noisier mix.
Well, there are exceptions for every single 'rule' I've mentioned, but this way you have a lot of control over the way the loop would sound. I'd also add a lowpass on the very high treble frequencies (6+KHz) of certain elements here just to keep this clashing with a well placed hihat sequence. Basically, you just do what sounds best, and it's better if you have as much control as possible about these things. Once you can get it sounding just right like this, you can start experimenting with more creative effects on a drumloop, but no one seems to do this unless they are into techno influenced music.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 13:50
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yes kaz right , you should choose right and fat samples to get fatter groove because compression and delay won't do the job well while your samples are slim .
after you choose right samples i devide groove to two groups when first one is high perc. (hihats , hats , tambs) and second one is mid groove (snare , clap , toms ) ,,,,, for high perc. group i always use simple limiting because i think compression by compressor not doing the job well on high perc. and mid group i do EQ to make it sound fit to each other , compress by compressor and add tiny reeverb .
decide what do you like to hear , i like punchy and fat snares/claps and low-mid toms as addition to bassline so my EQ for snare/clap groove will be 150hz punch and from 2khz high fatness
for toms i work only on 150-500hz region
but do not over do it because sometimes wrong compression sound like no sample attack at all .... which is bad to hear ....
and of course don't forget that if you make groove fat it must be balanced well with other coz in the end you can hear only groove .....
so actualy you need to make all fat but you can't use other ppl shit to learn from it ... |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 14:05
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omg !
im really surprised with the amaziing knowledge ppl have here 
thanks a lot guys and like always , every word spoken means a lot 2 me and is highly appreciated and im really thankful 4 all of this !
neways , others also pls keep posting on ur tricks and techniques ...
plur 2 all ...
boom ! |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 17:47
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There are no special 'techniques'. If it sounds good and fits well then it is good. It it sounds bad and fits good, it is also good, but needs to be used carefully. If it sounds good and fits bad, then you'll end up making other stuff sound worse, unless you are VERY good at tweaking your track to sound right. If it sounds bad and fits bad and you still use it, it will probably suck unless you happen to be Aphex Twin.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
932
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 17:53
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my way ...
first i take some samples of percussions like snares , shakers , clap , ch , oh , .... eqlize them ...
then take some drumm loops ...
cut them arrange them new and put a eq on ...
the arrangement of the percussions and loops is maybe the most important ...
Work with delays on drummloops ... specialy with stereo delays u can make realy good effects ...u just need to know what kind of delay ...
Delays can do a grat job ... !!!
They make it sounds more round ...
and also work with some reverb on some percussions ...
compressions i also don't make on drummloops ...but sometimes i cut some frequences off from the loop ...
a good eq works also as well ...
hugs
Simon
www.myspace.com/freakulizer
www.facebook.com/freakulizer
www.myspace.com/khainzmusic
http://www.facebook.com/khainzmusic |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 18:08
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equalize everything is not adviceble ...
do you realy think that the one who record drum sample is less proffecional than you ? i think you wrong here . less EQ more natural sounding .... drum samples only .... |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 18:29
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thanks a lot kaz , sektor , mike and thujon ...
i will definately give a try to all those ideas and see how things improve ...
sektor , i dont fully agree with u as u say , tht everythng must not be equalized .... so tth every thng is more natural sounding ...
well mate , the points i would like to make here are as follows ...
1. trance = electronica music and not ethnic [ so must not worry 2 much abt natural sounding .. i mean in trance even kicks are synthesized !! ]
2 . eq can be a very creative tool and though i know many ppl and articles say , if "it " sounds ok dont eq ... but i dont agree fully ...
3. this is so bcoz , eq not always only giving gain to freqs , but also can be used to cut some ...
so maybe where u dont want to boost anything , always try to look out 4 regions tht u can cut , so they they can make space for other elements to b heard more clearly ..
4 . rest as all said .. do as it sounds ok ...
5 . music = no rules !
no hard feeling , or im no expert ... still learning ...
only mentioning wat i feel.. .
plur to every 1 ....
all u guys r just gr8 !
boom ! |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 20:36
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so i try to show you different point of view , nothing personal too ...
rephrase to make me clear:
natural sounding means .... live natural instruments .....
also i never said that nothing need to be equalized , i reffer my words to natural recorded samples which been recorded by pro sound designers .
the synthesized kicks that you talking about are other story .... read my words ..... please .
i like your way of thinking i had same three years ago ...... it will help you to gain much more because you will practice and understand why do/do not to EQ and when do/do not EQ than listen to some jerk like me or sound engineer that wrote article .....
about what you know !!!!
GTN do you have monitors ? do you know to monitor sound , so how the hell can you know if it's sounds okay or not ?("you" is example not personal)
about five ...... music has no rules but ppl do have rules of listening , some sort of standart ...when you cross the border of "standart" noone will like or define your creature as music ......
think of happy ppl dancing or chilling when you make music and not how to make no rules or sense ? |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Sep 12, 2004 23:19
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sektor i do have monitors .... thts my answer and i dont want to say anything else ...
as i already said , im no expert and still learning ...
so pls 4give me ... if i sounded bad / rude some where .....
it seems like u know a lot more than i do , i think better not to argue and instead i should try to learn and improve ...
god bless u man and all the best !
peace .. boom ! |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
932
Posted : Sep 13, 2004 00:25
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 13, 2004 00:37
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it is realy stupid idea to turn this thread from fatness tips to when should you EQ ...i do sorry for turning it wrong direction .....
GTN i never said i better than you in something , maybe cooking , right i cook..... well ...i just show you another point of view ,,,you can use it or can not ...
Simon ...... you right , do whatever you like .....
three different drummers , three different studios , there different drumsets and you EQ to make them sound together ... good idea
i can't argue anymore ,,,, |
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organicparadox
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
174
Posted : Sep 13, 2004 04:48
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my two cents about htis particular topic,
1. ignore tHuJoN's post
2. listen to kaz's first post
no offense tHuJoN, i just disagree with most everything you said in relation to this topic
kaz, not kissing ass, but your first post summed up about any advice i would have given from my point fo view
www.organicparadox.com
In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal. |
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