| Author
|
Equal Loudness Contours
|
JaLi
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
173
Posted : Feb 4, 2006 21:10
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
Very interesting article.
This graph is usually followed from tuning a piano to eqing and mastering.
Has anyone got a link or article with a more extended and in dept explanation on the subject?
Not sure if posted before..tried the search.
  Reasons to be cheerful are 3..! |
|
|
|
Frequencysm
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 5, 2006 04:39
|
|
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Feb 5, 2006 05:08
|
|
i study that this year at physics lol |
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 15:16
|
The frequencies that have the most meaningful information for humans (the pitch at which babies cry etc.) are perceived easiest and at low levels.
In practice, it means that it's a good idea to mix at the SAME sound pressure level all the time (around conversation level). And then when you have finished your mix, check it at a really high level for short periods of time to see if it will sound good at the level at which your mix will be played at parties: LOUD. Repeat this final step a few times and try to balance the highs the lows relative to the rest of the mix, because the highs and the lows are most likely to be off, due to the equal-loudness (aka Jessica Fletcher / Charles Manson) curves. Psytrance should sound its best at loud levels, right ?
Not sure about this, but i THINK it might work 
|
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 15:30
|
yeah Boobytrip... sound good, but not only babies, grown ups aswell... its quite wide 
i sometimes find the percs to sit too high in a mix when played very loud, so loud that my ears hurt...
also subbass can be a bitch, i really cant tell how much louder it gets when turning the volume up, cause when turning the volume down the subbass is most evident and it feels so strong even at low volumes... maybe this is much due to heavy compression??
this is a art of its own...
|
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 15:43
|
|
Maybe your subbass is loud because of standing waves in the room or resonances in your monitors. Because normally, the lower frequencies are the most likely ones to fall down in volume: there's a "loudness" knob on stereos so your basses and highs are audible at lower volumes.
|
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 15:53
|
yeah i see what you mean.. and most probably its standing waves...
i havent had the luxury to take notes of this in a treated room...
the loudness knob, what is it really doing? adding a smiley eq boost or something else? i just thought it amplified the sound by simple gain...
______
Now that i have 2 pair of 2.1 systems(one in the kitchen and one in the other room) it can be tricky for me to really tell...
and both of them is standing under a table, so i guess the bass is extra amplyfied...
i need to get my self a pair of nearfield monitors aswell...
anyway yesterday i noticed when fixing my courtains that the bass got louder the higher up i came, and its the same the lower to the floor i come the louder the bass gets... which i already know, but i didtnt know the bass got stronger at higher altitudes
i really need to understand how sounds travle in rooms and how different rooms have different hertz on standing waves... |
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 16:28
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-02-07 15:53, New Era Scientist wrote:
the loudness knob, what is it really doing? adding a smiley eq boost
|
|
That is exactly what it does. Because of the the equal loudness curves, which our brains know instinctively, it gives the _impression_ of loudness.
Quote:
|
anyway yesterday i noticed when fixing my courtains that the bass got louder the higher up i came, and its the same the lower to the floor i come the louder the bass gets... which i already know, but i didtnt know the bass got stronger at higher altitudes
|
|
You are just getting closer to a standing wave node. Try putting your head in a corner of your room[1]. The bass will also sound louder there.
UnderTow
[1] It is best to let your body follow when you do this. Things could get painfull otherwise.  |
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 16:37
|
haha, thanks UnderTow
i will do some investigations...
|
|
|
|
FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 18:52
|
New Era Scientist, where the bass will sound stronger or louder will completelly depend on the format of your room...probably you even have a point in your room where the bass comes in total phase cancelation and becomes silent... very important to be aware of wich frequencies are being afected by standing ways in your room (since these will add and take out sound, so you might be mixing something thinking it sounds great until you hear it in a diferent room and either there is no bass, in case you are getting it doubled in your room, or there is too much bass if u mix in a place where it get canceled...)
Equal Loudness Countours is about the changes in loudness perception perception related to sound level at diferent frequencies, being that the higher the volume is, the flatest we perceive the frequency spectrum.
You can see from the graph that to perceive the loudness of a 100Hz tone at the same level of a 1000Hz frequency at 20db, you actually need the 100Hz to be at 50db (almost the double) so it "sounds" at the same level of the 1000Hz at 20. If you have the 1000Hz at 80, the 100Hz will actually just need to be 90Hz to be perceived with the same loudness...So you always need to have this in consideration when mixing...
But boobytrip, this doesn´t mean you should always mix in same volume! exactly the oposite! you should always try diferent volumes to experiment how you hear the diferent sounds in diferent levels. You don´t want your track to sound good when loud...you want your track to sound good at any level...
Most studios consider good mixing level 85dB....that´s pretty loud! (by working laws, its the maximum amount allowed to work for periods of 8 hours). And its 85Db in peaks wich also means that average sound is not 85dB. Ok, in prof. studios have accoustic treatment and so there will be (ideally) no standing waves in the sweet spot to mix, wich makes the volume be much less since it is being reflected in diferent directions and absorved instead of going back to you, but still, its quite loud...(most professional studios spend more time in accoustic treatment than on equipment....)
boomz |
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Feb 7, 2006 23:01
|
Aha, thanx mate, it was just a hunch really I figured that if you do all your balancing of instruments at the same sound pressure level (SPL) you get one balance between all sounds, instead of many balances made at different SPL's. So if you want to correct something you correct one equal loudness curve instead of many. But i stand corrected
Still, for me, with banging psytrance, it just has to sound perfect when LOUD and okay when played at lower volumes. Apparently, if you look at the curve you have to choose one volume at which it sounds perfect. It can't sound good at all levels, right ? It's a shame you can only mix at LOUD levels for so long until your ears give up.
|
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Feb 8, 2006 01:58
|
FluoSamsara - thank you very much for a good explaination
i havent got in depth with this stuff yet, though i intend to do |
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Feb 8, 2006 02:52
|
There is a good argument for always working at the same level: You get used to the way it sounds and can make quick and easy decisions about your mixing. Especially because of the loudness curves! When mastering this is even more important.
At my home studio or when I work more than once in other studios (I'm a freelance sound engineer), I make note of the levels settings so that when I come back I can get to work quickly and don't have to worry about wether I am mixing too hot or too low.
The best is to have a calibrated system so that you know more or less how loud your mix is.
I'm with Boobytrip about when tracks should sound good. If making psytrance, I only really care about how it will sound on a big PA system. I couldn't care less how it sounds as background music.
For chill-out or other styles, the mix has to be more portable. It should sound good at different levels and on different speakers.
UnderTow
|
|
|
|
