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EQing Kick and Bass
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PsyDave
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
3
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 02:42:41
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hi
i just saw a kick an bass tutorial (http://www.psytuts.com/kick-bass-gel/) and I'm wondering if the EQing there is done correctly!?
As far as I know you just lowcut after your root note and boost the root with a little Q.
Also the kicks tone should end at the same frequency as the freq of the bass starts.
Tutorial says "Boost root note" at the kick and at the bass. but when i look at the 2 pictures, the kicks rootnote is about 40hz and the rootnote of the bass is between 60-70hz.
Am i or is the tutorial wrong?
thanks |
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Hypereal
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
86
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 03:33
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Bass Secrets - Mixing Bass 2 by Bill Cosmosis
Practical E.qing - in the Context of Kick and/or Bass lines
First the bad news: there is no recipe for how to e.q a bassline. One cannot just say, "just boost x frequency by x db, or cut y frequency by x db and it'll sound great."
Why? Because it depends on the unique properties the kick you're using (mainly it's frequency content and length), the bassline note lengths, the key of the bass line, the bass sound and waveform and the bass level relative to the kick.
You have to listen to see how they interact against each other. This makes it an art rather than a science. Hence the importance of being able to actually hear what you are doing. Once you can hear what's going on, then you can begin the process of training your ears to focus upon hearing low frequency detail and start improve your mixing skill.
Second thing to bear in mind is this: If you want to have a huge and chunky bottom end on you tracks then you must either (and somewhat counter-intuitively) skinny up the bassline or the kick by reducing or removing the subs with e.q. It's either one or the other, but not both.
Both kick and bassline cannot be rich in sub-bass and co-exist in the same track at the same time. Or rather they can, but you'll end up with a boomy and indistinct result. I've known this in theory for longer than I care to admit, but that didn't stop me for most of my record making life from trying to have both the the bassline and the kick be fat and chunky at the same time, but I've eventually been dragged kicking and screaming to the conclusion that it just doesn't work.
What I've discovered by my own experimentation is that the lower you go in terms of frequency, the more problematic getting two low frequencies to co-exist becomes, to the point where, for practical purposes, only one low frequency can exist at any one time. It's a two cats in a sack situation or like two heavyweight boxers, they both cannot exist in the same ring at the same time and both be champion, there's always a fight and it's often ugly.
E.Q filters for Kick and Bass
I'm assuming that you know the difference between e.q types such as low pass, high pass etc. If not then a quick Google should bring you up to speed.
Bass shelving filter:
Bass shelves in today's plugins can often be unneccesarily complex and confusing offering several different design types ( Bessel, Gurzon, Butterworth etc.) as well as variable Q and variable filter "corner" (cutoff point).
Personally I find this counter productive.
It takes hours of practical experience with a particular e.q. shelf to become aquainted with how it affects different sounds. As an example, back in the day when I used to mix through an analogue console, I found that by using the simple 80 hz low shelf combined with the 18db/oct high pass switch and the semi-parametric low mid control which swept down to 50 hz I could find huge amount of low end shaping possibilities.
Having limitations often helps the one's creativity and ironically, infinite possibilities can actually be a hindrance by aggravating option anxiety as well as the sheer amount of time wasted by auditioning and experimenting with different filter types on each new plug-in.
(btw Bagginz Law bears repeating here. Bagginz Law states that: "The quantity of finished work leaving a producers studio is inversely proportional to the amount of plugins in that producer's plugin folder").
Given this situation, when it comes to learning how to use low shelving e.q, a good approach (and one that I often use) is to leave the Q at default, and set the frequency at 100 hz (if it's not already at 100 hz by default) and simply use the cut and boost control. Also stick to using a plugin that you're familiar working with. Later you can gradually start to use the other controls once you build up a working relationship with how it sounds and what it does.
I find bass shelves really useful to raise or lower the amount of low frequencies by varying amounts. I often end up with small cuts or boosts around < 3db, which is usually a lot if you are affecting that large a range of frequencies.
High Pass (or low cut)
High pass filters are useful for removing low frequencies altogether, rather than just reducing them.
In this context, setting a steep high pass (24db/oct or more) on a bassline channel set very low - around 20 - 35 hz can help to remove subsonics that are otherwise just eating up headroom.
Before you say "but my monitors only go down to 40hz" try it and listen. ( pro monitors quote their low frequency limit as the -3db down point, so they actually do reproduce frequencies below that.)
The effect of filtering out the ultra low subs is actually perceivable and depending on what type of filter and how steep the slope the effect, the result can be really quite pronounced.
Removing some ultra low frequencies which are mainly below the range of the monitors perversely can actually make the volume rise on the channel meters. I'm not exactly why it happens technically, but believe that it has to do with low frequency masking or phase cancelling effects.
Certainly when combining a nice kick together with the bassline channel which has had the ultra low frequencies removed, the end result is two parts tending to lock together a lot better as it minimizes the sub frequencies in each part "fighting" with each other usually by part phase-cancelling each other out. Therefore allowing the kick's subs to breathe.
Bottom line is: removing the unwanted subs from the bassline give more headroom and allows the subs in the kick sound unrestrictedly. You may want to combine this sub cut with a low shelf to reduce the low end a little - again it depends on the sound.
You can of course do it the other way around, by skinnying up the kick instead which I've done myself in several Trance tracks, (and which would be a better approach for say Dub music) but generally speaking I prefer to let the kick carry the sub in Trance.
Parametric Filter
Here's a good tip for how to zero in on frequencies using parametric e.q.s
1. Solo your channel
2. Dial up a large boost (say 8- 12 db) with a narrow q.
3. Now sweep around while listening to find the frequency that you would like to either cut or boost.
4. Once you've found the frequency, then either cut it by lowering the gain to a negative amount or lower the boost amount of that frequency to a smaller amount.
5. Unsolo your channel to place the sound back into it's musical context.
6. Switch the e.q out and back in again to give yourself a reality check as it's very easy to get quickly accustomed to a processed sound. Again, it's important to make any evaluations while it is in the mix, and not while it is in solo mode. Does it sound better? Or not?
On the Kick:
Here's a couple of useful tips for the e.q on the Kick.
1. A small boost with a medium q at around 4 khz will emphasise the "click" of the kick to allow it to not get buried in the mix.
2. If a kick needs some "punch" then a small boost with medium q centred around 120hz - 250hz will give some body. This frequency band gives the kick punch and drive (which often can be what's required) without adding problematic lows.
3. If a kick need some sub added or removed, use the parametric e.q. A low shelf is a bit too crude a tool for this kind of work. Using the parametric tip above, zoom exactly in on the area which needs treatment. Fairly narrow q often works best. You'll need to be precise with the low frequencies because in the dark netherworld of the sub regions, just going from 40 hz - 80 hz is a whole octave. If you find yourself having to boost the low end with a low shelf, then it maybe best to use another kick sample, unless of course you don't have anything better, in which case carry on.
On Bass lines:
With regard to e.q ing the bass line, once you have your basic kick and bassline levels set, don't be afraid to notch out some of the mids with a parametric if you think it sounds better, or you want to make some room in the midrange for other lead stuff.
Conversely don't be afraid to boost away on a parametric band (or two) if it will help give your bassline some definition and help it sit better in the mix.
It's not like the raw saw wave bass sound has to be kept natural.
Obviously you must do your e.q ing of the bassline when the the kick is playing along together with the bass.
E.q.ing the kick and bass group:
Another tip is to e.q the kick and bass group together. I haven't used this for a while but I've used this technique in the past. This can make the kick and bass sound more cohesive. I routinely route my kick and bass to a single group (a buss in Logic speak)
This enables me to apply any processing (filtering effects, e.q.ing, compress, limiting etc. ) to both at once should I so wish. Sending both kick and bass to their own group is a useful habit to get into. I recommend setting up your sequencer template with the routings already in place.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 12:49
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biigest trouble it s to get a monitoring response that have no big dip or boost..then u can do what ever u want if it sound good, it will sound good everywhere.
boosting here or there don t mean much as long as the monitoring response is not flat enough..you compensate more or less for the room. in a room you can cut at 250 hz, the next day in a other you may cut at 700 hz.. ect..it s very tricky , and it's really hard/a pain to mix againt what sound good in the room..you will naturaly go for it to some extent. |
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Hypereal
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
86
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 15:54
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+1 on room acoustics,you should test your room response.If you dont have money to buy measuring tools(software,mic etc) simplest way would be to play sinewaves and listen where does it sounds boosted or where does sound disappear(search net for explanation of standing waves).Another way around if you are interested and willing to make room sound better then go for DIY bass traps.Also get youself some headphones to check your mix.Cheers |
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PsyDave
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
3
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 18:15
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hi and thanks for the quick response.
my room isn't the best but its pretty okay. actually i know what freq is boosted or lowered in my room. i have a mic for measurements and pretty good equip.
rme multiface, yamaha hs8 + hs8s.
i'm just wondering why boosting the kick as low as 40Hz.
I've never done that, normally i boost the bass and the kick at its rootnote wich is mostly on G, 49Hz. |
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Hypereal
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
86
Posted : Dec 7, 2014 18:51
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I would rather cut than boost especially that low.Dont be guided by one tutorial,every kick and bass is different so just use you ears.Make it simple- do you want short kick and long bass or long kick and short bass,so decide who will be highpassed instead of boosting them at same frequency unless you are after that extreme sidechain pumpy slow sound.Dont be deceived by low end in mastered song cause you will be chasing your own tail. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 8, 2014 16:28
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yeah just tweak by ears and see what work for you, use a tune as reference if you re not sure , one in the same key |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Dec 8, 2014 22:46
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What bothers me the most - pun intended - is when he says "At 145 BPM for example, bass decay shouldn’t be longer than 1 ms.".
Just kidding, it's presumably a typo of some kind (hopefully).
Wouldn't boost so low, if it was me. It's all a matter of balance. If you cut the highs on a sound, in a way, you're increasing it's lows and mids. And like Bill said on the post above, on the narrow region of the very lows, a little something can mean a big mess. Unless you're doing very narrow bell boosts, which would ultimately sound awfully wrong when you start changing notes. So, personal answer to that, would be: No! Don't boost there!
If you high pass close to your root note, like you say, you can try and use some resonance, a little touch - and that sounds a lot different then having a high pass followed by a bell raising some frequency there, even a combination of a low shelf with the high pass filter is better.
Besides that, if you ask me, there's no real hard rules about it, rather then experimenting and keep on doing it. Small touches here and there, fine tuning stuff. You can always go back to it later on with the rest of the mix going, and probably should.
Sidechain is not just for the "slow pumpy sound", but another way of making your low end work together. If one sound reacts to another one, that's already a working relationship of sorts, right? And mixing is about such relationships.
And please make your decay longer then 1ms, don't believe everything you read on the internet  |
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