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electronic music is dumbing down music as a whole
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KINO OKO
Bigwigs
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29
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345
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 21:33
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I can't go to psytrance parties anymore. I only go to the ones I play at, and I can't stay. I can't listen to that music. The stupidity is too much and I insult myself and my taste when I let it hit my ears. I'm an arrogant snob when it comes to music but I don't give a shit. There is better music out there that's not getting played and till it is, I'm not attending and subjecting myself to the drivel.
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this is my point of view. I never listened to electornic only. Now i know so much music of other genres which talks to my heart and satisfy me as a listener. I realized years ago that electonic will never gain such level. Im surrounded by thousands of incredibly good tracks of every genre i could imagine and found no reason to dig further in electronic - i like to learn new. At my stage of knowledge in electronic music i can't learn anymore, i can't be surprised and enchanted. Its now like old friendship which will last forever, its sentimental and strong, but i meet new people too, they give me excitement i need.
  www.kinooko.pl |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
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103
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2184
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 22:10
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I have to tell you guys that I recently had a very pleasant surprise when I visited New Orleans for Jazz Fest last April.
It's the first time I've been excited, surprised and moved by music and genuine musicians in quite a while. Very refreshing and relieving to know that it still exists.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 22:51
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The interesting thing here is that after all a lot of people agree on missing something in psytrance or find it too "stupid", but all see the reason in different areas.
Ozelot finds the music not elaborate enough, Kino finds other music that is talking more to his heart and guessing from bigwigs style maybe misses innovation and I think psytrance simply lacks personality and an openheart too often.
Who is right? I think we all have expectations and with those expectations our perception will always hide certain things from us. Me for example, I'm so much looking for seeing the artists personality in the music, being touched emotionaly deeply by the music, that I forget very often that impersonal, but intelligent music can be very satisfying too.
Nevertheless I don't want to say that every music is great if you look at it right. There is a lot of music that has been done with no intention but ego-boast, money-gain, self-confirmation and I think this music annoys all who are able to feel the intention. I think there we all have common ground.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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iTranscendence
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
386
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 23:25
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I thought your song formula on intermezzo extended was great. It was a welcomed break to the usual prog-psy formula.
blip.fm/itranscendence |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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170
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3642
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 23:32
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On 2009-09-09 06:03, faxinadu wrote:
i know one thing "dude", you are coming to "perform" in myy country, count me and my friends out of it. just cause of this J thread. your vibes are SO wrong. again - have fun, but count US out.
lame
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If you'd met Aaron before you wouldn't be saying this  .
I'm so glad I've had a chance to meet and talk to him before reading all the threads and posts he makes on here. I don't feel the negativity that a lot of people do.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 23:44
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Pretty harsh words Faxinadu, especially since Aaron just speaks his mind openly and honestly. I do not sense negativity, I see constructive criticism here. The negativity really came out in your post.
So I suggest you take it easy, have a good laugh about the whole thing and a spliff...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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KINO OKO
Bigwigs
Started Topics :
29
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345
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 23:57
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there must be a brave in heart to break rules, must be curiosity to see what will happen if musical problem is solved other way, must be a strength to dig into musical matter with pleasure. Musician must be open for any innovation, all impulses and transform it in piece of art which contents these experiences. Also musician is to observe things unknown to him and be hungry for thinking processes which lead to invention. Its because musician must listen first to have something to say at the end.
www.kinooko.pl |
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KINO OKO
Bigwigs
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
345
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 00:11
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one thing: i'm sure we are facing a transformation process which, i really hope, will lead to generate proper main stream. By main stream i mean music which has a value as a music, can be understood by newcomers, can be appreciate by listeners from outside the circle. That is my dream and i would like to participate in this movement. I really hope i will happen some day.
www.kinooko.pl |
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JohnTaramas
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
772
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 00:23
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On 2009-09-09 23:44, Upavas wrote:
Pretty harsh words Faxinadu, especially since Aaron just speaks his mind openly and honestly. I do not sense negativity, I see constructive criticism here. The negativity really came out in your post.
So I suggest you take it easy, have a good laugh about the whole thing and a spliff...
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damn right. |
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MsoB
Started Topics :
4
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61
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 00:25
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On 2009-09-09 05:47, ocelot wrote:
i do not blame the techniques at all,
i blame the total vacuum of musical culture we have grown up in.
we have no idea about the musical heritage of the world (maybe 10s of thousands of years people!) in our current pop culture.
in psy, on THIS forum, many people admit their first exposure to really LISTENING to any kind of music was to PSY!
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I guess I just don't think about this much, because I grew up in a family that was extremely musical, and I was listening to classical and jazz before I could talk.
You are definitely right that most people these days don't have much background in or appreciation for musical heritage. But I think corporate controlled media is primarily at fault for this - when the deciding factor in every decision is the profit margin, it leads to a sort of lowest common denominator situation. There is so little space in modern mass media for anything resembling art, because those with the most soulless and ruthless profit motive end up dominating the landscape. And the most cost effective form of advertising is the simplest, most sentimental, hedonistic, instant-gratification, bullshit. I dunno what the answer to this problem is, because any democratic approach allows the majority (who always seem to be disappointingly shallow and dumb) to be in control... But any non-democratic approach requires a certain amount of elitism and authoritarian control. Ultimately I just don't think it's possible to enforce culture.
Though increasing the emphasis on art/music education in public schools would probably help a lot...
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On 2009-09-09 05:47, ocelot wrote:
this coupled with the degeneration in terms of the global musical heritage that rock and roll has caused, and you have this world where people compare dance music and pop music and they are increasingly similar (pop copying dance naturally) and where all the massive variations in chord progressions, tempo variations (what the fuck happened to rubato time flow? its possible in cubase for example with tempo tracks, but it makes it a bitch for dj's then...) harmony, and non-parallel compositional techniques that may have existed are simply tossed by the wayside...
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Does anyone else think that maybe a big part of the reason that electronic music as a whole has been so dumbed down is DJs? IMO, it's definitely possible to write dance floor friendly tracks in strange time signatures, or with lots of tempo shifts (or both), but I think a lot of producers shy away from this because they need DJs to buy and spin their tracks - and most DJs can't or won't spin this kind of stuff. For a while I was writing tracks always keeping in mind that I wanted to keep them "DJ friendly", and in practice this ended up meaning that I stuck to pretty strict formulas and patterns, and often ignored some of my more creative, experimental impulses.
And as a DJ, I used to find myself conflicted over certain tracks that were amazing, but difficult to mix with. I got into spinning some electro and minimal for a while, because it allowed so much more freedom for creative mixing and layering, as opposed to the more complex and dense psychedelic stuff I usually spin... but I realized after a while that it just wasn't satisfying, and that I was sacrificing musical quality for mixing easiness/fun.
Psytrance DJ sets-->
http://earthmensound.com
(original tunes coming soon)
Original dubstep tunes -->
http://omegadubstep.com
http://myspace.com/psydubstep |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
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928
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 02:06
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What are we doing here product design for DJs. This direction definitelly will standarize music. As a DJ I want music that will make people fly and look to heaven in disbelieve of how much joy they are feeling in this moment.
IMHO it is just hard to find a artists that are flexible as a performer as well as a composer. This is what Ocelot is saying. But, this takes a lifetime. In any instrument training, kids start young and dedicate countless hours to train and practice. It is a lifestyle... that requires extraordinary discipline. In the meantime they learn the theory behind it. And in electronic music... also you need to be a sound engineer!! In the end there is uber talented people who can write a classical piano sonata in a bliss after 20 years+ of studying and make statements like... I do not listen to romantic, classical and barroque music anymore. It is too simple (Sounds Familiar These guys are writing pieces now that are played by orchestras around the country.
Does this exist in trance? Yes it does. You can see it easy. The guys make trance, rock, jazz, funk, punk, death metal, orchestral pieces... and jam anywhere, anyhow. They focus on trance because they love it for one reason or another. Sometimes these people are misunderstood, because they are Freaks in the most powerful sense of this word.
Also it takes a long time for a musician to make a masterpiece. This person might write countless pieces b4 creating the cosmic mother of all inspiration. It requires knowledge, hard work, a "who cares about the money, I love what I do" attitude, and a divine muse. And when you listen to this music it is inspiring and aweing. It becomes timeless. And for sure we all want to buy it because it is gold.
I have been gold digging for 20 years, this is hard work. Listen to three or four styles of music. About 100+ releases a day per style. 3 or 4 hours infront of the computer. And that is now... back then I would just buy what was released (Only in trance) without listening, because I trusted the people behind the labels and the artists behind the music were putting the best of the best in their releases. And the good music exists... it just also takes so much time it is tiring. If your girlfriend/boyfriend is not a DJ and goes with you to the store for the first time... you know she/he will never come back after you spend 3 or 4 hours sorting out music. This is, how they say in Russian: Normalna |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 13:15
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Ozelot finds the music not elaborate enough,
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enough with this "ocelot wants complicated jazzy baroque noodling" concept...
i never said that.
ocelot thinks the general public has gotten dumber about music thanks to electronic music. rock and roll is also to blame...
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for a remedy- i suggest a measure of elitism based on teaching the traditions of music as we can best understand it in global terms.
we need to teach the music traditions of europe, asia, africa, australia, south america, north america, even antarctica...
(yes antarctican music is very refined. SCM might find it a bit cold and un-emotional but its art)
seriously. especially since the following is true:
in rock and roll we threw away all the musical sophistication of the western musical tradition (listen to any disney movie soundtrack for example... not jazz complicated, but lyrical and not only 3 chords. listen to some sinatra, edith piaf, marlene dietrich, learn what a SONG is.)
to say NOTHING of the other traditions and what we lost from them...
and in trance we are all in one key the whole time just humming along on the same note... (well in any GOOD trance imo... not a big fan of chord progressions over a disco beat) so we are modal all the time in a monotonic world.
so, its doubly triply important to understand the entire universe of other stuff we missed.
we run the risk of becoming musical inbreds
rednecks who fuck their sisters and make kids with 3 eyes and stuff...
which i do not condone in any way.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 15:11
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On 2009-09-09 23:25, iTranscendence wrote:
I thought your song formula on intermezzo extended was great. It was a welcomed break to the usual prog-psy formula.
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thanks
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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dj atatri
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
517
Posted : Sep 10, 2009 22:07
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On 2009-09-05 20:55, faxinadu wrote:
i don't listen to music to say "woooooow omg the guy is so talented, omg the drummer is so awsome, omg this is genius composition". i listen to music to get touched physically, emotionally, spiritually. the trick is to touch, and it can be with a 3 note hook, or with a "genius" jazz improv. it really doesn't matter.
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+1 to this bro....
Dj Atatri |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Sep 11, 2009 03:15
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On 2009-09-10 13:15, ocelot wrote:
we need to teach the music traditions of europe, asia, africa, australia, south america, north america, even antarctica...
(yes antarctican music is very refined. SCM might find it a bit cold and un-emotional but its art)
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It's a form of art because of the meaning not because of the "breakthrough" musical language!!!!!!
Music like any other form of art is a manifestation...that can appeal to your senses (and reason) or not...
What's dumbing people is not the music (electronic) but the way we relate to music and how this affects the process of creation...
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On 2009-09-05 20:55, faxinadu wrote:
i don't listen to music to say "woooooow omg the guy is so talented, omg the drummer is so awsome, omg this is genius composition". i listen to music to get touched physically, emotionally, spiritually. the trick is to touch, and it can be with a 3 note hook, or with a "genius" jazz improv. it really doesn't matter.
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+1
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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