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electronic music is dumbing down music as a whole
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 8, 2009 20:27
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the minute you use a phrase like "stupid simple shit", i am out of this conversation. enjoy your "pretentious crap pseudo-hippie-intellectual chat" , i will go put on a dj taucher track and rock the speakers.
good day.
 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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9
Posts :
772
Posted : Sep 8, 2009 22:23
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On 2009-09-08 20:27, faxinadu wrote:
the minute you use a phrase like "stupid simple shit", i am out of this conversation. enjoy your "pretentious crap pseudo-hippie-intellectual chat" , i will go put on a dj taucher track and rock the speakers.
good day.
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stupid simple shit, is a phrase to show how poor todays music is, compered to the abilities that the music theory provide.
if you feel insulted, maybe you should think more about matters like our ego and the importance of ourselves within all the people.
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Sep 8, 2009 23:05
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There always has been difficult music, and there always has been accessible music
And also, there always has been good difficult music and bad difficult music and good acessible music and bad accessible music.
("This is getting very complicated")
Does music have to be complicated to be good?
(From the Ophidian "Phataa diin god" E.P. -- a VERY good but VERY simple release. don't know who originally said it) |
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Bigwigs
Bigwigs
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
40
Posted : Sep 8, 2009 23:26
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We say:
Music is an immaterial message, should mean and have content, independently of its kind. Most music called "bad" lacks meaning and message, its empty, independently of its kind.
Musician must think what is purpose of composition and put lot of psychical effort to create such purpose first of all, then to create a thing exactly to achieve this purpose, to be clear to audience as much as his artistic abilities allow and be totally in line with his definition of music.
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MsoB
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
61
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 02:04
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Interesting thread. In general I tend to agree with a lot of what you've said, Ocelot. I definitely share your frustration with modern society being so overwhelmed by the culture of advertising and consumerism, and it sucks to see electronic music being assimilated into and used by it. But I disagree that this is electronic music's fault, and I don't think it's fair to compare electronic music to the Borg.
All artistic movements and styles have incorporated and been influenced by what came before, and electronic music is no different. True, that with the introduction of recording/sampling, and even more so with digital reproduction of media, modern music can literally copy and paste from the traditions and styles that influenced it, rather than filtering such influence through the more natural processes of human learning, integration, and emulation - but again, I think this is a flaw of the people that use it this way, rather than an inherent problem of the style itself.
I think it's easy to blame computers for the oversimplification that has run rampant in modern musical culture, but I think that is a trend that is bound to happen anytime new technology becomes prevalent within an artistic style.
When a new tool/technology/technique is introduced, the user has 2 options: The first, and far more common option is to simply use that tool to make it easier and more efficient to just continue doing what they were doing before the tool was introduced - thus creating a greater volume of output, but not expanding their creative scope. This tends to lead to mass-production of generally uninspired mediocrity, which I feel is an adequate description of most modern music.
The second option is to take that tool, and use the new power/efficiency/whatever that it grants, to push beyond the previous creative limits of what you were doing before you had that tool. So rather than making life easier, this new tool ends up creating even more work and more challenges, for those who use it in this way. To me, this dichotomy is one of the defining differences between artists and everyone else - artists tend to pick option 2.
The idea that computers make making music easier is something I've only ever heard from people who have never used csound, pure data, or Max/MSP. Certainly computers CAN make music production easier, but I don't think the existence of technology that makes certain aspects of the process easier will in any way dilute or inhibit the creative potential of real artists.
As far as the whole issue of the heart/soul involved in creativity, I feel like it's utterly subjective. I don't think simple/accessible automatically equal bad, and I don't think obscure/difficult automatically equal good. I think some artists create because they simply need to express something inside them, regardless of who is listening. I think other artists create because they need to share what they have inside with other people. I think both are equally as valid.
Psytrance DJ sets-->
http://earthmensound.com
(original tunes coming soon)
Original dubstep tunes -->
http://omegadubstep.com
http://myspace.com/psydubstep |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 05:27
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On 2009-09-08 20:27, faxinadu wrote:
the minute you use a phrase like "stupid simple shit", i am out of this conversation. enjoy your "pretentious crap pseudo-hippie-intellectual chat" , i will go put on a dj taucher track and rock the speakers.
good day.
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ummm feel free to learn how to read dude.
the phrase you are quoting comes from a longer peice in which i object to the fact you make up words and say i said them.
thats called LYING
so then i responded with a thing telling you "how would you like if i do the same"
and then you quote a peice from me where i was doing that in fact- making shit up and pretending you said it...
i was making a POINT DUDE
DON"T MAKE UP SHIT AND SAY PEOPLE SAID IT.
its not nice, its a good way to start a fight, and it does nothing to further the actual discussion...
in other words (if you STILL dont understand what i am saying)
DO NOT MIS-REPRESENT SOMEONE ELSES WORDS...
and if you require it I shall invent a set of "irony" tags to mark up text where i am in danger of confusing excessively earnest folks.
eh... sorry for focusing all the energy on arguing with people. i like to argue too much i guess.. (and complain)
i would like to say i am reading all the other posts also just reacting sometimes to the ones i hate the most- if i could only reach through tthe monitor and strangle...
well i guess i might have a few neck bruises as well then...goes both ways i guess... |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 05:47
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Quote:
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On 2009-09-09 02:04, MsoB wrote:
I think it's easy to blame computers for the oversimplification that has run rampant in modern musical culture, but I think that is a trend that is bound to happen anytime new technology becomes prevalent within an artistic style.
When a new tool/technology/technique is introduced, the user has 2 options: The first, and far more common option is to simply use that tool to make it easier and more efficient to just continue doing what they were doing before the tool was introduced - thus creating a greater volume of output, but not expanding their creative scope. This tends to lead to mass-production of generally uninspired mediocrity, which I feel is an adequate description of most modern music.
The second option is to take that tool, and use the new power/efficiency/whatever that it grants, to push beyond the previous creative limits of what you were doing before you had that tool. So rather than making life easier, this new tool ends up creating even more work and more challenges, for those who use it in this way. To me, this dichotomy is one of the defining differences between artists and everyone else - artists tend to pick option 2.
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i do not blame the techniques at all,
i blame the total vacuum of musical culture we have grown up in.
we have no idea about the musical heritage of the world (maybe 10s of thousands of years people!) in our current pop culture.
in psy, on THIS forum, many people admit their first exposure to really LISTENING to any kind of music was to PSY!
this coupled with the degeneration in terms of the global musical heritage that rock and roll has caused, and you have this world where people compare dance music and pop music and they are increasingly similar (pop copying dance naturally) and where all the massive variations in chord progressions, tempo variations (what the fuck happened to rubato time flow? its possible in cubase for example with tempo tracks, but it makes it a bitch for dj's then...) harmony, and non-parallel compositional techniques that may have existed are simply tossed by the wayside...
for people who think its all wanker jazzy whatever- listen to a film score from anytime before the rock and roll era- particularly (and even!) the commercial hollywood "golden age" classics, or even Disney pap...there is a musical score (though mundane for its time and considering it the norm among its peers) that would put ANY peice of modern Popular Style music (rock, disco, reggae, soul, funk, rnb, house, techno, trance, hiphop, dnb, etc! all of which are essentially either modal- or really fucking simple in terms of chord progression) to shame!
i am not advocating a return to old compositional techniques- i am advocating for the awareness and study of all the old compositional techniques, and a surpassing of them in terms of the aspects we are most concerned with...
ultimately- in terms of PSY TRANCE- i am not after psytrance that sounds like a lot of notes played on keyboard triggering a synthesizer...
i am interested in hearing and feeling a subtlety of sound that makes me understand that this music was made by god, an alien, or at least someone beyond the realm of mortal casios... |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 05:53
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On 2009-09-08 23:05, Shiranui wrote:
There always has been difficult music, and there always has been accessible music
And also, there always has been good difficult music and bad difficult music and good acessible music and bad accessible music.
("This is getting very complicated")
Does music have to be complicated to be good?
(From the Ophidian "Phataa diin god" E.P. -- a VERY good but VERY simple release. don't know who originally said it)
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no. but it needs to model human emotions accurately...
i believe it was a famous "jazzy wanker" who said :
"its the notes you DONT play that are as important as the notes you DO play"
(miles davis)
i sat through 6 hours of chillout music the other night before a chord deeper than a major or minor triad came into any of the songs... they were all trying to be very sentimental and humanistic, but somehow felt cold to me, then i realized- my mood would not be touched by such- there was a forced falseness to it...
its possible to make a very very simple thing that is very very good.
that is why the beatles are still copied to this day in the long-dead art of rock-n-roll
(usually a new band coming out today sounds to me like either the beatles, the stones, or zepellin...it seems that the rock-n-roll apples dont fall far from the tree...)
anyway- i was saying something earlier about "simplistic vs simple"
and simple is good... it means you cut out the bullshit
but simplistic is bad- it means you lied and cut corners. (not telling the truth) |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 06:03
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i know one thing "dude", you are coming to "perform" in myy country, count me and my friends out of it. just cause of this J thread. your vibes are SO wrong. again - have fun, but count US out.
lame
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 06:04
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 06:20
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 17:00
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
8779
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 17:22
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i love minimal
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 21:08
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I find this a really very interesting topic. One I've been giving a lot of thought to.
Pages of response in my head.
Colin I like your immediate responses and I agree. Also BigWigs you speak truth as well (as expected, considering the depth and intelligence of your music).
My grandfather, Putnam Aldrich, noted harpsichordist and Stanford musicologist spent some time with us when we lived in Indonesia to study Gamelan music in the 70s.
I remember numerous nights laying on bamboo maps staring up at the stars listening to this music. I was raised on that, jazz and classical. But I gravitated to those first few Black Sabbath albums, as well as any funk music I could find.
Why?
Anyway Aaron, I'm glad you are calling foul. Even if it is only on isratrance. Someone has to do it. Cos it's not just a trend that will pass, unfortunately. And it's not just in electronic music. Not just pop music either.
I can't go to psytrance parties anymore. I only go to the ones I play at, and I can't stay. I can't listen to that music. The stupidity is too much and I insult myself and my taste when I let it hit my ears. I'm an arrogant snob when it comes to music but I don't give a shit. There is better music out there that's not getting played and till it is, I'm not attending and subjecting myself to the drivel.
(
No offense to all my friends that produce music and DJ the music I'm criticizing. you know who you are. We're still buddies
)
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 9, 2009 21:25
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On 2009-09-09 17:22, Dogon wrote:
i love minimal
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check out my minimal techno project
(shades of dub techno also i guess?)
http://www.myspace.com/legjobbneuron
free 9 track dj kit... mix n match. have fun
and rich, i totally feel what you mean- not sure if we have the same exact tastes- but on the general tip thats about what i meant. maybe i should just have started a thread- "help im a snob in a world of baloney!"
bigwigs- you are wise...
i clearly am a rude ass sometimes but i am very happy to hear all these thoughts and reflections- even faxinadus (in moderation, maybe only one time- ok call me an intolerant bastard)
lets make better music- anyone making music try to make it more meaningfull.
i guess subconsciousmind would agree to that even eh?
-=--- and if you see a flyer with my name on it for 10 october playing in israel its not true. long story. wasn't booked actually and i am not coming on that one so don't expect it... |
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