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electronic music is dumbing down music as a whole
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 12:26
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On 2009-09-07 06:40, aXis wrote:
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On 2009-09-05 22:45, Basilisk wrote:
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On 2009-09-05 20:57, ocelot wrote:
all electronic dance music is essentially monkeys playing "chopsticks" on automatic-music-making-machines.
some excels beyond this into the realm of sublime actual music. not much IMO... |
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Just wondering... given all the deficiencies you rant on about, is there anything in your own discography that we might check out to hear something different, something reflecting your higher understanding of these matters?
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lol
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For Axis
I had the pleasure to meet Ocelot a few times... and happily have heard what he has been creating lately. I would say that yes he is in constant evolution and adding more complexity and theory to his music. And he is just not doing one style or one type of music.
From who I met, Chromosome is also a good example of trained musicians taking it up a notch. One a guitarist and the other a classically trained pianist. Also Delirious Moon is a great musician, coming from a family of musicians. It shows in their music. |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 12:29
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Merlot
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 15:08
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Interesting thread.
You right when you imply that the majority of shit/trite/banal music will always outweigh the truly innovative, inspirational music. However, i wouldn't to go so far as to say that electronic music in general is not evolving. I think your problem has as much to do with a complacent audience and a media-centric (?) society, than it is with cookie cutter music.
It doesn't mean there aren't visionary artists out there who aren't re-inventing the wheel. Why not look towards these individuals to enrich our lives, instead of dwelling on this rampant consumerism that constantly bombards our sense?
Also - I'd like to share an excerpt from a recent interview with Peter Christopherson, who has been a seminal member of bands like Coil and Throbbing Gristle since the 1980's. He has a truly refreshing take on music, and his latest album with CoH, xAj3z is imo the greatest thing i've heard this year. I only quote this interview here, because i feel its relevant to the discussion. Artists like this are amongst us, we just have to look in the right places.
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Q) In an earlier statement you rejected the majority of the current music as "banal and meaningless". What would be required of music to regain meaning?
PC - We would like to see more artists and musicians being independently imaginative, more playful in their work as opposed to being preoccupied with expectations from trends, from the media, from their record labels, from their fans.. and most of all, from their own desire for the trappings of celebrity and success, which are endlessly promoted as the single and only thing we should all aspire to.
The idea that it could be worthwhile spending your entire life, just making beautiful, or mysterious, or thoughtful music that in some way improves, or makes more bearable, the lives of those who hear it, never even occurs to most people.
We understand it might not be easy for young musicians to realize what matters, and what not - today's music is almost entirely driven by market and its interests - however this is the utopia we try to pursue with Soisong.
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Full interview here - http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=317275336&blogId=503829630
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 17:10
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A solution: electronic music composers shouldn't listen to electronic music.
Anyway, this psy scene is far from creating a Bach but I do feel we can get there. The greatest are always the ones who climb and shine out of a pool of mediocrity.
It does make you wonder why it hasn't happened because it would be way easier to do it now than it was then. Maybe technology is to blame? We as humans are lazy so we're bound to make it a crutch at some point. Maybe that's why we see instrumental musicians as "real" ... they're putting in more labour in general.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 17:43
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If electronic music is shit, it's because artists make music to be released, rather than because they will suffer mentally if they don't, or because they have a burning desire to create that overrides everything else in their lives. Music is art is expression, and music made with an eye on release and sales is expressing the artists desire for money.
As music gets easier to make, so more people will make it irrespective of their level of ability, leading to more music being made which more people might not like. So fucking what? You can't stop it, you can't change it, you can't turn back time and un-invent MIDI and digital audio. The only thing you can do by complaining is cause yourself pain, which is fine if this is how you need to motivate yourself to produce your own art but is otherwise pointless and unproductive and not a good look, as has been pointed out to me any number of times.
"Don't get bitter, get better". Make the music yourself that will shine above all others and redeem the genre.
Trax or STFU
 Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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ocelot
ocelot
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 18:03
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thanks for your patience and stuff as this thread evolves.
maybe its true that i am focusing on the pop or commercial aspect to music (it must sell as a product, on cd or as an act on the stage/party/whatever)
and largely its the bit of about finding electronica everywhere in advertising now... and you know that vocal pop formula since the 80's, some chick singing baby baby whoa whoa, well it used to have a rock band behind it now its a trance/techno beat and a synth bassline. i even hear the laser fx and whooshes in commercial music now. its just a sample pack/cd a way. all the elements are there, and loads of people are making loads of music and of course we are recycyling and re-recycling and much does not advance but is merely derivative... we also don't have the tastemakers of big commercial labels or communist gov'ts anymore to determine what the people will listen to.
the people decide, and their opinions are molded by the same media they are consuming etc... so... yes yes yes.
thanks a lot for helping clarify that nagging feeling...
i feel validated, if an ass slightly, and i will shut up now for a bit. |
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BoTD
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2009 21:14
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Like so many people have said in this topic, psy-trance or electronic music for that matter is still in infancy. People are awed by a 4 note melody because it can be produced with just a computer. Let them trip and make their sounds.. When they experience this thoroughly, there will be a gradual desire for newer concepts that will inevitably lead to understanding the theoretical part of music. All i'm saying is that its too early to decide ... let it
Your life is yours to create
http://tweakpeak.blogspot.com |
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Merlot
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 07:47
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looking forward to let's dance, ocelot
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 11:46
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iTranscendence
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 12:22
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The piano sequence is almost 'let it be'.
blip.fm/itranscendence |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Sep 8, 2009 12:36
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On 2009-09-07 18:03, ocelot wrote:
maybe its true that i am focusing on the pop or commercial aspect to music (it must sell as a product, on cd or as an act on the stage/party/whatever)
and largely its the bit of about finding electronica everywhere in advertising now... and you know that vocal pop formula since the 80's, some chick singing baby baby whoa whoa, well it used to have a rock band behind it now its a trance/techno beat and a synth bassline. i even hear the laser fx and whooshes in commercial music now. its just a sample pack/cd a way. all the elements are there, and loads of people are making loads of music and of course we are recycyling and re-recycling and much does not advance but is merely derivative...
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oh you talk about mainstream music??
well since when that was any good and who ever listen to that from first place?
really , underground psy has more to offer then that!
so skazi add lazer sound in rock song and record with famous artists etc... who here expect that to be good music? i dont..
but when talk about my favorite acts that i actualy have cds of.. neh dude , death metal and underground psy is defintly more inventive and original then mainstream pop.
offcourse you can bring formula fullon as argument but this is mainstream like madone for me only that madone rox alot better. i meen , her show is by far better then eskimo lol.. anywayz for sure its true about mtv or radio but thats known for 'musical sheeps' and not quality listeners
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 13:32
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 14:36
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i think more than the music its alcohol, ganja, mdma, lsd,dmt, etc make people stupider in some cases and while in others it evokes creativity. well the music on its own only tickles your ear drums and makes you shake your body or takes u on a journey and after 6:20mins theres a break in that break people do dumb things and thats how the story goes.
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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ocelot
ocelot
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 14:42
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for the record Faxinadu, let me get this straight:
(since we seem to enjoy making straw men- the logical fallacy where one pretends to represent anothers point of view, but only in a stupid way so one can easily smash it)
you defend the status quo of electronic music
its good enough. why should it progress or change?
keep it the same forever! long live benny benassi.
you think its very good to make stupid simple shit and we should keep doing this and more so... we should make the music even more stupid and simple... maybe you are right.
long live straw men
doesnt feel very nice does it? better to actually try to understand what people are saying and not be mean for nothing...
anyway- i did not ever say "complicated means good" but maybe you can just go back and read what i actually said...
and when it comes to imitating real life, yes a more complete model (of emotions for example in music) is better!
thats why 96khz digital audio is better than 44.1khz! closer to the actual sounds of the real world we are imitating
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JohnTaramas
Inactive User
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Posted : Sep 8, 2009 19:22
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music changed along with the people through time. in the modern world people became more and more emotionally flat,one face per feeling,as the emoticons you said. music was the mirror of the peoples thoughts and feelings, nearly since the begining of human kind. modern way of life reduces the range of feelings someone may feel.. in the other side aritists get lazier when simplistic music works good for the trade. no need for most of people to get tired searching for complex harmonic ideas or looking to the roots of music, because the job can be done without them.
its sad to realise, but if we study, then apply and share the knowledge, is a way to help it. |
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