Stregone
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Posted : Sep 26, 2009 00:58
Very nice discussion here!
Psytrance is a dancefloor music you will never find the same composition quality as an ancient movie music.....it is made with a fixed structure to makes people dance... is made as people expect it to be made, by some better then other and with more hint but that's it...
While I agree, I don't realy blame electronic music for this.
It doesn't help that the bar was set impossibly high over a century ago by guys like Chopin, Debussy and Stravinsky. The closer you get back to those guys time period the more influencial they were on popular music, obviously. Its like we have been on a downard slide of making music more simple since then outside of underground stuff.
I would kill to hear some kind of psy/dub/ambient by someone who has the same musical knowledge as stravisnky..The problem is if someone really put in that much time and effort they are going to want a stable career from it, so at this point those guys end up in film track music.
It also doesn't help that classical music has become something that is "played" as opposed to composed, something froze in time as opposed to something new..Even the name implies that.
Wendy Carlos is really a great example of this. Her album Beauty in the Beast is as about a perfect electronic album as you can ask for, but the only reason she was able to make this album was because she made enough money from her soundtrack work first. Nobody bought her original electronic albums so she quit bothering 20 years ago now. That also was when almost no one had the funds to even make electronic music, let alone mp3s sucking the money out. So basically, forget about it happening now.
Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Sep 27, 2009 17:45
Quote:
I would kill to hear some kind of psy/dub/ambient by someone who has the same musical knowledge as stravisnky
Check out "My Little Forest" by Argaman!
That guy has been a musical prodigy all his life. He was writing movie scores for Israeli film at 16, is classically trained in a variety of styles, and nowadays produces what you hear in that album. You can DEFINITELY hear a huge positive difference in that work of his and I HIGHLY recommend it.
I can't stress that enough... check it out!
P.S. John Locke is made of awesome
Freeflow
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Posted : Sep 30, 2009 04:01
I havent read the whole thread but with electronic music you can express your self in many different ways and melodies dosen´t always have to be complex!
I never quantize my emotional pieces... i might fix a note i played wrong but that is as far as it goes,
I usually layer some sounds and play what i can when im in the mood, its instant music, played in the present, possessed by the creative force that surrounds us...
Its up to each person to learn more about what he loves, Ocelot you are talking about commercial electronic music... its its pretty much numbing and dumbing down on all others..
Freeflow
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Posted : Sep 30, 2009 04:01
ops double post...
Stregone
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Posted : Sep 30, 2009 14:51
Anyway I find the discussion: is all about emotion and I think music can be also very simple and so on very cheap...
For sure simple things can be wonderfull, but if you looks in the nature simple things can be like a mountain and a lake, but what created that mountain and lake are thousands of years of rains, erosions, techtonic movements, earth evolution and so on is somethings far away more complex than anything ever created by humans, but is still just a mountain and a lake....
three note putted down easily in do scale for sure can sounds emotional... but still is something that 100% somebody has already used in another song and the guy who used it has already listened to it and maybe he don't remember, but used the subconsciouss reminescence of the sound in his brain to create what he think it's new....
Why tell all this... because with the electronic music era everybody in the developped world can make music at home, but not everybody can make good music and just a few can go further and develop something new and in better quality and as for art in every phase of history one innovate and thousands copy and take inspiration from him....
After is easy to say that you like to make emotional songts and emotions are not correlate to the complexity of the music.... but it's really too cheap to stop there.....as everybody could do that....
especially when making music becomes more a work of trying, experimenting,cutting, pasting, moving using samples and pre sets and so on then a real composition of music...
that's my point
And I have to say is really a good discussion!
If we are here as humanity is to go on further..... trying to do better then before!
Freeflow
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Posted : Oct 1, 2009 01:58
Stregone - Maybe This is what its all about! that we can all do the same, but no matter what, if you play an instrument, and i mean play with your hands, your expression is going to be unique(in most cases)That is if you dont copy and past(or read sheet music very well), but of course in psytrance its handy to copy and paste some long sections, but its all to easy to do it too much and leave a track expressionless... every detail matters, everything you put your hands on makes a difference...
I think its great that everybody can do music at home, and its nothing unique, we have been able to do music at home since we discovered music electronic music machines and gears is just another tool...what is new is that everybody can record good and easy..
it is what you make of it, everything!
Complex or not, the more you know the more tools you have for expression... even if you spend more time thinking and re-arrange and expand wont necessary make it better... lots of times things lose their soul this way, just accept the fact that water runs over the rocks and shape what it shapes! you can force the water to run faster or steer it in other directions, but maybe just then you take away the soul of the shape that was going to be....
this is why i like to keep things a little jumbled up sometimes.. and when i try to arrange it in a more mathematical manner the soul disappears..
Peace
LumaDaylight
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Posted : Oct 2, 2009 15:08
to ocelot, ive read much of your posts regarding electronic music and your views towards it now but in all respect why do you continue to make this type of music now if all you are doing is bashing it?
Ascension
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Posted : Oct 2, 2009 16:23
Quote:
On 2009-10-02 15:08, LumaDaylight wrote:
to ocelot, ive read much of your posts regarding electronic music and your views towards it now but in all respect why do you continue to make this type of music now if all you are doing is bashing it?
LumaDaylight
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Posted : Oct 2, 2009 16:34
ahhh i see..was just curious since ocelot is one of my faves
anOM
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Posted : Oct 5, 2009 13:38
i do think emusic is all about its stucture and composion.. i personally reached a point that what sounds nice is now enough anymore.. i can get excited listen to any shit while i´m drunk for example.. but it wont sound like good music for me... thats why i stopped going to trance parties a few years ago..
i do not play.. but after i got quite familiar with emusic i decided to study and check out if a producer is really good rather than making twisted preselected effects only.. and thats no big surprise.. it turned out to be really disappointing indeed.. music it can be just a formal expression of your thoughts and feeling but that wont necessarily make a good musician
Free your mind...
Stregone
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Posted : Oct 5, 2009 13:44
Yep AnOM what you say go a lot in the direction I was speaking above
braininavat
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Posted : Oct 5, 2009 14:56
Of course no one is going to argue that simple music can not also be good...Its like saying that complex music can't be bad, thats obviously absurd.
The problem is the more simply a music is the less there is to work with to come up with something new almost by definition. Its like a machine with less parts in a process of trying to come up with original parts.
I still disagree with the title of this thread and think its more an issue with modern music as a whole.
Here is a great example from a chopin etude..
Very simple melody, but what makes this piece is how interesting it is harmonically.
We are somewhat victims in modern times by how far people took instruments technically in the 19th and early 20th century..Just to even play the masterpieces from this time takes so much time to learn, so many hours of practice that there is no time left to learn how they constructed their music.
People in general do not get degrees in composition from a conservatory and then make rock music or psytrance. Its somewhat of a catch 22...being interested in that level harmonically probly means your not interested in less complex music harmonically, and if you are interested in less harmonically complex music, you probly won't bother going to a conservatory for composition...especially when you basically have no chance of making a career of it.
Freeflow
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Posted : Oct 6, 2009 04:28
There is always Art music for those who are tired with "folk music" or pop music...
Its always a bonus if you can enjoy both but i guess art music sometimes requires that you have some more knowledge because of the complexity that maybe not always are pleasing to the ear but more pleasing to the technical side of the brain, sort to say...
"Musician Catherine Schmidt-Jones for example defines art music as "a music which requires significantly more work by the listener to fully appreciate than is typical of popular music." In her view, "This can include the more challenging types of jazz and rock music, as well as Classical."
I know i didnt really like some psytrance back in the days, i thought it was too much and couldnt really focus! maybe its a question of musical preference and to learn to listen to some music...
But i totally understand both Stregone, anOM and braininavat.... But remember what matters the most is that you can enjoy music
