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East coast/West coast
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Oct 11, 2004 17:08
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inspired by the "north american psy growth" and since i didnt want to derail that topic i started a new one. this is in no way to start some beef between the coasts, just an observation made by an east coaster.
i feel the west coast enjoys a higher quality of trance then here out east. i say this based on observations made at parties on both sides. when i say quality i guess i need to define my words... so let me try:
1. first of, sheer numbers of attendants are higher in the west, bigger doesnt always mean better, but those higher numbers are of people who are trancers and not non-psy club people who happen to be in the count during an east coast party.
2. physical stores exist in the west, there are actual built hubs of information where people can convene and discuss events, music and culture on any given time. the east coast really only had "home of trance", which in my opinion did much more harm then good.
3. promoters are of higher quality in the west. no this doesnt mean that they are all throwing events of 3000 people, but the respect, communication and commrodery is felt even to an outsider. there is an active working relationship between organizers. "bad" promoters (ones who deceive attendants) are quickly identified and isolated as they should be forcing them to either bring up their standards or quit.
here in the east unfortunately this is not the case at all, there are a few active promoters that i know of who on a regular basis do the best to deceive their audience, posting misleading lineups, misleading information on the flyer and "extras" that they never intend to fullfil - just in order to attract more people. these promoters for some reason are not being "checked" by the trance community and they continue to bring the scene down.
4. the vibe... which is so important to a true trancer does not exist in the same way here. from being in west coast parties, i noticed that there is a stronger connection between people on the floor. maybe its the outdoors factor, perhaps its the people themselves who are more open to each other and not closed off in their drug realm, unable to connect.
5. the crowd, this is key. i think people's awareness of psy is much deeper in the west. meaning: their threshold level of understanding is higher. when they come to a party they expect a certain level of proffessionalism from the promoters, dj's on the decks and other trancers. i cant say the same for most attnedees of psy parties here who do not know if the main act is playing or a local dj. people who dont mind tracks from 3 years ago being played at mp3 quality and dj's who do not know how to beatmix.
6. which brings me to the final topic: dj's:
i can name on my 10 fingers east coast dj's who are of the level of playing at a party. all the rest just happen to be people who like psy and are basically jukeboxing, not much diffrent then the "crossfade" option on winamp type dj's. i blame the crowd for this as this simply must not be allowed, tomatoes/anthrax/rubber chickens must be thrown here until these people realize what a dj is and what his/her job is.
i guess i could go on, but i need to get back to work...
im thinking to myself why this is as im writing it and coming to one obvious conclusion that was resparked by my recent interview with bluetech (of the west coast): the hippie core exists in the california, the essence of the culture is the reason for its flourishing there - out east that core is missing.
  "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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bluespectralmonkey
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 11, 2004 17:58
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i dunno gadi, thats pretty judgemental ?
from my experience the ideal psy party situation has been reached on both coasts.
while oregon , seattle and california have thier crews, djs, and have had many many great parties, im sure that there have been some bad ones too.
nyc seems to lead the way on bad promoters. i havent had the experience of dealing with any of them, but i have heard the stories. ive had only good experiences in nyc , omnitribe, ecliptic! and well the DMT has its moments hehe...
all the other promoters in the east that i am awaare of are reliable and trustworthy, as well as being skilled djs.
i wont list all the skilled djs from the east, but there are waaay more than 10. boston, nyc, philly, cleveland, baltimore, the list goes on, all have great djs leading the scene. and smaller scenes so the "vibe" at the party and "dancefloor energy" is much more noticeable.
it seems you are jaded from living in nyc too long? it seems you are listing all the problems with the NYC scene and draping it over the "east coast"
by boldly generalizing you are bringing the hard work of all the other cities down. 3 other cities that i will list have top notch promotion and djs, philly, boston, and cleveland... thier hard work deserves notice.
and while all scenes have thier drama, it seems only nyc has the issues you mention.
the scene i am a part of, the scene i know;
asheville has parties that have been compared many times to west coast vibe... maybe thats cause we are so far from the coast! but youve never been to one of our parties? also if i remeber correctly you werent at gaian mind this summer? that was a high point for psy in the east. omnidance also had some amazing energy.
granted the west is a hub for the psychedelic energy, the pioneers who took the land from the natives forged a new territory a couple hundred years ago, and the energy there is still fresh,, not to mention the land is beautiful and not so urbanized as it is here in the east, ie NYC to DC is all paved. there are many different scenes in the west also,,, san diego, LA, SF, Norcal, portland, seattle, BC are the hubs, and there are many in between, and i guarantee there are similar issues.
well anyways i have art to make.... rant over..
no hard feelings gadi, i think you should re-name your post however?
nyc/west coast
www.bluespectralmonkey.com
www.touchsamadhi.com
www.interchill.com
www.metacrew.com
www.nw-psy.com |
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kameleonpangea36
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Posted : Oct 11, 2004 18:34
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very true monkey, if your looking for the "west coast vibe" on the east coast, asheville should be your next stop, the parties are very spiritual, theres a lot of beautiful land around the western carolinas and eastern tenn. maybe everyone should start coming down here to party if things are getting schechy up there, |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Oct 11, 2004 18:46
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you bring some valid points to the table chris, and ofcourse its judegemental - its whole essence is that, if i was to castrate it it would lose its... well: balls.
boston, asheville and cleveland have much smaller numbers in attendance then nyc parties. those parties, while having their good sides are not usually in the same caliber of production investment as nyc events. this is why i consider nyc as the hub of the east coast. since most of my examples are of nyc you may have gotten that feeling, i merely wanted to express with accuracy things i know of.
even festivals like gaian mind and omnitribes have much to learn from their counterparts on the west coast.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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paradigm
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 03:01
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Interesting thread, Id like to add a west coast(nor cal) perspective to it.
In terms of numbers people always over estimate what the west coast has. A average party with 1 international act, generally gets 150-200 people. Thump events get about 500-800 however Thumps get the club element , those that are just there because its something that is going on.
Festivals get about 300-500, Goa Gil usually getting the most people.
I understand that the Omni-tribe campout in early summer back east got around 700 people. Id be amazing if that could be done here. Im expecting around 400 for COS.
As for promoters, 90% of us that promote psyin the bay area are all preety close freinds. We have our different crews but we all hang out with each other at one time or another, and share ideas, contacts, venues and resources. Theres are a few lone wolfs out there, those generally being the Burning Man style promoters. Some do ok, most dont.
However in SF and this can sometimes be considered a short coming, We are all hyper-critical bitches here. Whether it be on music, producers or events, we have standards and if those standards arent met, well we talk shit. That shit talking keeps promoters on there toes, but it has also made for some tense times between people, crews and or other scenes.
As for dj's, well everyone and there mom is a dj in SF. Fact SF has more electronic music djs (regardless of genre)per capita than anyplace else in the world. That much competiton means that if you want to be booked, you better be good. The exemption to that being if your old skool enough, skill doesnt matter. Not a formula i personally agree with, but thats how it works.
The east coast does seem to have a few good crews and or djs/prodcuers from what i have seen/heard
Obviously Ecliptic Trance has a amazing reputation that is known globaly.
Touch Samadhi has deffinatley won a place in my heart, the time i had at Neptunalia was awsome, and i heard many a good dj there from various crews around the east.
Omni-tribe and Goa head from my understanding seem to have a good name and reputation.
The biggest point of nit-picking i would make towards east coast djs though would be what seems to be a reliance on cdj1000's. Around the world the industry standard is the cdj 100, but most east djs seem to have a booking requirement of having a 1000. If your a good dj, you should be able to play effectivley on the most stripped down P.O.S. equipment,
IMO anyways.
I really hope that more events both west and east work on bridging the gap of the coasts. I think that a exchange of fresh ideas from both directions can really help out the US scene as a whole.
I do have to say though, the east coast seems to be better on deco at events and psychedelic art and artsits. Its always the same Space Tribe tapestries here.
I hope someone from a SoCal crew adds there 2 cents, that way a full perspective on this thread can be gained |
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SoNiC B0oM
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 05:23
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as a member of the forum and the north american scene, i can only base my opinion on my experience of the psy scene here. being close to phila and ny i tend to attend most of the 'big' parties. big in the sense that there is an international act/dj lined up. i would love to make it to all the parties small or big, but i just dont have the time or the $.
from what i have seen in ny scenes and i have been to quite a few parties over the year, the major difference i see is from the organisations that throw the party. in my humble opinion, ecliptic is the benchmark for party promotions here in ny. asides from delievering the lineups as promised, they were also were considerate to party goers from outta town with their presale tickets. also in all the ecliptic parties i have been to there have been no fuck ups with equipment or poor mixin skills.
however this is not an attempt to bad mouth other promoters here in ny. i am very grateful to other promoters, even though at times i as a trancer am the one that gets the short end of the stick. i rather have somethin as opposed to nothin. i just hope that in the future that promoters learn from thier mistakes.
as for the vibes in the parties... yes the vibes here in ny are very different. fortunatley i have been able to travel and witness other scenes around the world and ny is not up there with the best. i agree with gadi to some extenet that alot of ppl use the psy scene as an excuse to do thier drugs but at the same time alot of us are in it purley for the music. i am not goin to bitch about how it can be or how it should be. i know the west has a much better scene and believe me i get green with envy when i see the posts with the lineups that they get. but at the same time i am very very grateful for what i do get to see in ny.
i hope the scene grows in the right way.. and i hopee that gadi and others that are weary of the trance scene in ny find the energy to continue to push for what they once believed in.. cause in my books gadi and ecliptic were top notch.
keep the vibe positive and the psyscene alive
booooom
"Like every great religion of the past we seek to find the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in the metaphor of the present—turn on, tune in, drop out." |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 08:41
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ok to clear some things up.
paradigm:
omnitribe had about half the number you wrote... maybe 400 max.
with all due respect about scenes outside of nyc on the east coast:
boston: parties that end at 2am are not enough in my book. fact is bostonians come to nyc when there is a serious event due to this. loft parties there do not have in attendance more then 100 people and going by the psy lists subscribers arent many to begin with. no store to advertise trance other then satellite records who are unfriendly to say the least.
cleveland: again respect to luke for trying to setup something good there, BUT... there is no scene in cleveland no matter how you want to sugar coat it. having the same group of friends coming over and over to your parties is not enough.
asheville: since i am friends with some of you i hope you take my critique the right way, i will not however take it easier on you. i feel its the same idea but for longer as with cleveland... there is no psy awareness in the lower eastern states, your are an isolated entity that supports itself. your events rely on your own families and people. when there are intenational headlines you rely on the nyc trancers to come down for support, without them you do not have enough.
regarding DMT events: they are at best an avoided disaster... i think 9/10 times the generator isnt working, the sound system is malfunctioning, and the most of the dj's have no idea what year this...
same goes to gaian mind... it does not exist without nyc.
so nyc is the hub of the east coast.
paradigm, nice to see a closer view opened to the public.. i would like to see more west coast promoters responding as well.
also, i think its important to state that there are politics in motion ruling people's responses. some are avoiding this topic becuase of that and its a shame... by politics i mean dj's (self proclaimed and actual) are afraid to open their mouths in the risk of "not getting booked" or having some kind of future altercation with an organizer... this is not cool... but i understand how it works and sympathize.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 08:51
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I don't want to get into this, as I just don't know enough about the scene south of the border (I'm from Canada), but Omnidance this year had over 600 people for sure, maybe a bit more.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 09:04
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im not trying to nitpick, but have u been there? i was... i was being generous with the 400 figure.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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Nutz
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 09:12
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Oh boy... what a touchy subject...
I recently moved to Boston from SF (about 3 months ago). And so far, I'd have to agree in full with Surrender.
First off there's NOTHING going on here. There is one party every month (and a new weekly too) and it is pretty much 100% progressive trance (or maybe prog-psy, but whatever). This works does it for some people, but definately not for me (or my wife for that matter). (DISCLAIMER: I know that psyforia is supposed to be full-on this month, for the first time since... March??, but unfortunately I will be in SF, rocking out to hallucinogen) I understand that there's a bunch of stuff in NY, a mere 3-4 hour drive away. Now this is a venture that I have no problem doing for a 2 day campout type thing, but I'd be asking to die to drive 3 hours, dance all night, then drive back. It's just suicide.
My answer so far -- fly to cali to go to parties. My reasons fallow:
1) Hey all my old homies are there...
2) It's only a 5 hour flight (that's barely longer than that drive to NY, and I'm not doing the driving ;)
3) Flights are just over $200! If I wanted to stay in NY it would cost me at least that (and I can stay with all the old homies if I go to cali)
4) Parties are cheaper. Plain and simple. Hallucinogen party vs Hallucinogen party, NY, $30/$35, CA, $25/30. Mind you, this is the most expensive CA party I've seen that doesn't last for 2-3 days. And While I'm on that, festivals for $75??? WHAT?!?!?! Do all you peaople make over 100 grand a year or something?!?!?!
5) Scene/Vibe: SF parties feel like a family. After a while you get to know everybody and you can chill with them. The crew out here seems to be just as much a tight knit family, but a little more exclusive.
6) Just as an added bonus, whenever I go back I get to play ;) I love the luna lounge (once taco portal, now Rotation) <shameless plug> I'd love to play out here if I could find a place... my demo can be found at djnutz.blacklight.net, just rt-click over the speaker and save as... </shameless plug>
Now as far as the fact that there is nothing going on here, I really don't know why. Whenever I leave the house I meet at least 2 new trancers that I have never met before. Random people that I have never heard of or met in my life, just on the streets of Boston/Cambridge. Unfortunately these people have no idea that there is anything going on at all around them. I met a guy the other week at a party (like a house party, not a trance party) that was all about Goa/psy, but hadn't listened to any in the last 3 YEARS because he couldn't find anything that was going on... HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? Is it their fault for not looking hard enough (trust me, east coast rave/psy boards aren't easy to come across), or is it promoters fault for not getting the word out? Now I'm not talking about flyering cars and such (c'mon I'm a hippie kid from CA), but getting out and talking to new people and getting the word out. If you can get just 2 new people to each party, that actually enjoy the music, this scene will explode.
OK... now that my mouth has run off, and I have no idea where it went, I'm going to go now... and yes, I'll be at circles of sound in two weeks. YAY!
-Nutz
Nutz@blacklight.net
PS: If anyone is interested in trying to get more going, I'm allways down. I'm willing to put in the time and energy, but I can't do it alone. |
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Bodhi 13:20
Bodhisattva 13:20
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 10:57
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As an experienced so cal partier I can give you these numbers/descriptions from what I've observed recently in this part of the country:
Thanx to Treavor Wyse and Green Sector, New years and 4th of July get up to about 500(+-) with an excellent vibe welcoming anyone with an open mind, international acts for new years and US acts for the 4th. They also do clubs in between (50-200 ppl)
Thanx to Psytribe, about 3-4 times a year they do 300+ events with both US and overseas talent, also welcoming anyone with an open mind and an excellent vibe. Psytribe will also do awesome beach parties in between, when the weather permits(which is most of the time).
Then you have the closer knit families that do outdoor desert/mountain/forest parties that can get up to 100+, sometimes more, sometimes alot less. Usally no international talent performs, mostly family dj's and producers. These families keep an eye on their email list, and filter through replies to bulk emails giving hints about the party. these parties happen at least once a month, but somtimes you'll see 3 or 4 in a month. I love these parties most of all, its what kept me in the scene, it's where I met my wife, it's where my friends got married, and it's what I write alot of music for. Mostly the dark, complex, non-fluffy kind of psytrance is played at these parties at night, with a variation of electronic music/wierd music during all other hours.
There are other crews, like Moontribe that do outdoor parties, but they dont play psytrance that much. I've seen an outdoor Moontribe recently that was over 800 people (with psytrance), but from what I've heard these parties usally get broken up by the rangers (the one I was at recently did). There are also occasional indoor parties, like ones from Heavy Rotation and other various crews, that bring international talent and can be really cool. I've found these parties to have more of a clubby, shiny-shirt vibe, but what do I expect, right?
I've never played music outside of California, so I can't really compare the east and west, but at least you can get an idea of what so cal is like. |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 16:56
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One thing I can say we (Psytribe) are proud of is when artists come and tell us that this was the best vibe and family atmosphere they've seen at a party in a long time....We hear things like, "This is how they used to be", or "I miss parties like this".
To me, that is VERY special. Way more special than a party with 700 "clueless" party people and clubbers. It says a lot. It let's us know that what we are striving to achieve is being accomplished......And it's not only the artists saying it that makes it special, but our peeps at the party that support us each and every time we set up camp........We love and cherish each and every one of you.....
And to top it off, Andy, Spyros and Kerry always just about break even, but they continue to do it, because we all would miss the love and smiles so much..
What's more family like than that?
assumption is the mother of all fuckups. |
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Lauryn
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 17:27
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Since I have never been to the west coast, I suppose I can only speak for what I know. I am from Boston and I have lived here for about 3 years now and quite honestly the fact that everything closes at 2am here kills any chance of a psy scene truly flourishing here. Even more so, the fact that most public transportation shuts down at 12:30 prevents even more people from coming out to events that end at 2am. And those that can provide their own transportation home, don't show up at these events until around midnight. Nutz is right-- the people are here, they are just not connecting for some reason. When I was working full time at Newbury Comics (local music store chain in MA), I would get people coming in looking for psytrance at least once or twice a week, if not more. And I would be able to direct them to what events were going on here in Boston, and I would be able to show them what little psytrance we did carry in the store. It seems that the events that we do have here, are not promoted anywhere near as much as they should be. And I cannot tell you how many people I know from the scene here in Boston, who have since moved to San Fran. In terms of a 'family' vibe existing-- its just not here.
Perhaps the fact that the majority of the events here close at 2am is the reason why there is so much more progressive here than full on (Its probably also one of the reasons why the drug problem is not an issue here in Boston). As I have an equal appreciation for both full on and progressive, this only means most of the time I end up travelling to NYC (or Asheville) to get my dose of full on. It is also very frustrating here because I am always getting ideas for parties I would like to organize, but then I always end up coming to the same conclusion-- what's the point of bringing an international artist to a party that shuts down at 2am?!?
Don't get me wrong-- I am grateful that we have any sort of psy scene here in Boston, I met people this summer from Chicago, Knoxville, Indiana and Mississippi to name a few, who have to travel 8 hrs to get to a psy event, and I promote and support any events that we do have going on here, these are just the facts about the scene that I know.
In the past year or so, I have started travelling more frequently to New York on weekends whenever I want to go to a trance party, and have thought about moving there on many occasions. What keeps me from doing so, is exactly what Surrender posted...there are just too many people doing too many drugs...that I find it very hard to connect with people in the scene there.
On a more positive note however, I did have some great experiences at psy events here on the east coast this past summer, namely, Gaian Mind Festival, Neptunalia, Logic Bomb/CPU Ecliptic Trance party, Mataa Mandaara IV, and the Psysex Ecliptic Trance party to name a few.
Hopefully, in the next year I will get a chance to check out the West Coast, Cali. and Seattle scenes namely...and then I suppose I will have a much better perspective on things... |
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krisamadhi
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 17:44
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well im going to put in the 2 cents on the $75 festivals.
we did one here in NC and the costs we insane and i hear they are worse up north. we had 250 people (100 were workers)venue took $20 a head plus power & trash removed.
(gaian mind has it worse!)then we had insurance, portajons, flyers, flight fees, dj/live act fees. Not to mention all the supplys and little things. so we would have lost money if it wasnt for a dear friend giving us some. I would love to hear of the land costs are like on the west coast?
Land is really hard to come by on the esat coast that is far away from houses. just take a look at a light-pollution map of the usa and you will totally understand. After COS ill know more about the west coast family, as i hear it is alot like ours here in a'ville.
Kri
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mist
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Posted : Oct 12, 2004 18:07
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....a view from outside....
being from texas, i guess we don't fit into the whole "east coast / west coast" thing, however, i'm not exactly sure how ohio does either... 
kidding aside, i've been fortunate enough to play on both coast (though never in california, nudge nudge wink wink), and you know what i think? it's all just family! at least in my experience. a group of like-minded (for the most part) individuals getting together to share and experience the music they love. i'm sure attendance goes up and down, here there anywhere. crowds, especially when pulling from the "mainstream" edm crowd, are fickle. here in texas, you may have 300 people at one event, and 50 at the next, and then 200, etc etc etc. i'd be willing to guess that there is fluctuation in every sub-scene/region. but as long as there are smiling trancers on the dancefloor, that's what matters right?
Are you connected to yourself?
http://soundcloud.com/justincaseboy |
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