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Earthlings Documentary

sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  6874
Posted : Jan 2, 2008 07:01
Quote:

On 2008-01-01 22:30, talolard wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-12-27 06:32, sure_smoke_alot wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-12-26 23:12, talolard wrote:
I watched it and I'll still eat meat.
I think that the correlation they tried do make in the begining of the movie between humans and animals was bullshit. The attempt to compare between the cognitive capabilities of humans and animals didnt work, it wasnt inductive and wasnt convincing.
since the mvoei trys to make its case on that, i think it failed.
as for showing a lot of disturbing footage, that was pretty harsh and got me thinking. but, call em calloused, it wasnt enough to convince me to stop eating meat.
Maybe i'll stop eating kosher slaughter thou, what they showed there was pretty bad.




i sincerly hope evolution gets to humans someday & some other species talk bout eating us the same way we are justifying our case here




No you don't. that would suck.




ask the families of chickens & other animals how they feel when u have em' for lunch

it'll surely make ur first statement look ridiculous

peace           the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!!
talolard
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  64
Posts :  282
Posted : Jan 2, 2008 23:40
Quote:

On 2008-01-02 07:01, sure_smoke_alot wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-01-01 22:30, talolard wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-12-27 06:32, sure_smoke_alot wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-12-26 23:12, talolard wrote:
I watched it and I'll still eat meat.
I think that the correlation they tried do make in the begining of the movie between humans and animals was bullshit. The attempt to compare between the cognitive capabilities of humans and animals didnt work, it wasnt inductive and wasnt convincing.
since the mvoei trys to make its case on that, i think it failed.
as for showing a lot of disturbing footage, that was pretty harsh and got me thinking. but, call em calloused, it wasnt enough to convince me to stop eating meat.
Maybe i'll stop eating kosher slaughter thou, what they showed there was pretty bad.




i sincerly hope evolution gets to humans someday & some other species talk bout eating us the same way we are justifying our case here




No you don't. that would suck.




ask the families of chickens & other animals how they feel when u have em' for lunch

it'll surely make ur first statement look ridiculous

peace




I agree. But, as I mentioned earlier, chickens and other animals are not cognitivly equal to humans, which makes the movies axiom look ridiculous.
By the same logic, the idea of having a discusion with a Chicken or another animal is ridiculous, again, not because i feel that I am above it, but rather because chickens adn other animals can't talk.
          Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.

natanofgaza@yahoo.com
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  236
Posts :  6106
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 00:10
Quote:
not because i feel that I am above it, but rather because chickens adn other animals can't talk.



This irritates me a lot.. So what your basicly saying is that since the animals treated badly and like objects doesn't have a verbal language that can't directly interact with humanbeings, their pain is irrelevant?? Do they not also feel?

Quote:

animals are not cognitivly equal to humans



? What do you mean, because we have developed our intelligence in another way then most animals, we are superior, better, and are allowed to conflict animalsd as much pain as we want to?? Shouldn't it be that since we, the smart and intellectual (language, thumbs, inventions and all this) should protect and be kind?

Your posts are not intelligent at all talolard, their very short minded and egoistic.

BUT, of course, you will one day think a bit diffrently, and see that we are all equal, no matter if we have a language, can invent a mobilphone or not. Peace, love, understanding and respect for all creatures, all life. A chicken might not be a genius, but it does have energy, and it does feel pain (pain is a many thing).


full_on
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  279
Posts :  5475
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 05:37
I disagree with you psytones, I think talolard's post is very valid. He's not saying "let's torture the chickens", but stating the obvious fact that chickens does not posses perception/awareness/consciousness equivalent to humans.

He's pointing to a part of the movie which can be object of criticism, which I think to be very positive, since this is a very complex issue.

I don't think the solution is either "let's kill everything that moves" nor "let's not kill anything". It is somewhere in the obscure midway. Because we kill vegetables. We kill bacteria. We kill fungi. Can we kill protozoans? Can we kill coelenterate? Can we kill insects? Can we kill any arthropods?

The question is more related to emphaty than to other stuff raised here IMO. You feel bad when you see a cow dying because you think you can relate to what she/it is feeling when she/it dies. Some people feel the same for insects, even though their nervous system is very rudimentary compared to mammals, which means the whole concept of suffering may not be applied for them. Since plants do not posses nervous system it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to state that they suffer, but you can relate to their suffering, because you can understand it is "dying of thirsty" when you see its leaves slowly start to dry...

So the point is that to discuss the issue is much better that call other people's points of views and opinions and posts "very short minded and egoistic".

Of course, anyone can judge my posts as they wish, I couldn't care less.
Respect!           .
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell...
sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  6874
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 06:41
Quote:

On 2008-01-02 23:40, talolard wrote:

By the same logic, the idea of having a discusion with a Chicken or another animal is ridiculous, again, not because i feel that I am above it, but rather because chickens adn other animals can't talk.





i think it's rather an human inabilty of not understanding thier language! have u ever thought it that way??

@full_on
i think u & others are rather missing the point of the documentry, it's not against non-veg but it's rather against the way we treat em' as fellow earthlings.
jus see it from that point of view & maybe u'll think of it better.
          the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!!
sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  6874
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 06:46
1 more thing i fail to understand here is, we all talk bout this beautiful 'VIBE' of our scene & how sacred we feel the dancefloor becomes with all the positive energy.........
& how miserably we fail to understand issuse like these where u dont need the support of 'Language' to understand how the fellow living being is feeling.           the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!!
full_on
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  279
Posts :  5475
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 07:03
Quote:

On 2008-01-03 06:41, sure_smoke_alot wrote:

@full_on
i think u & others are rather missing the point of the documentry, it's not against non-veg but it's rather against the way we treat em' as fellow earthlings.



I know it, it is far wider than just eating or not eating. That's why I wrote this:
Quote:

On 2008-01-03 05:37, full_on wrote:
I don't think the solution is either "let's kill everything that moves" nor "let's not kill anything". It is somewhere in the obscure midway. Because we kill vegetables. We kill bacteria. We kill fungi. Can we kill protozoans? Can we kill coelenterate? Can we kill insects? Can we kill any arthropods?

The question is more related to emphaty than to other stuff raised here IMO. You feel bad when you see a cow dying because you think you can relate to what she/it is feeling when she/it dies. Some people feel the same for insects, even though their nervous system is very rudimentary compared to mammals, which means the whole concept of suffering may not be applied for them. Since plants do not posses nervous system it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to state that they suffer, but you can relate to their suffering, because you can understand it is "dying of thirsty" when you see its leaves slowly start to dry...



If we could understand the other forms of life, then maybe we could know better the boundaries... Is it "normal" to have a fish in a bowl? Or a dog or cat in an apartment? Some people will argue they're domestic animals, and can't even live without human help... But does this means that apartments and bowls are good enough for them?

It is a complex issue...
Respect!           .
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell...
sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  6874
Posted : Jan 3, 2008 12:03
Quote:

On 2008-01-03 07:03, full_on wrote:

It is a complex issue...
Respect!




it is & the problem is we r being too willfully ignorant bout it & i fear 'Mother Nature' will have her revenge.
          the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!!
Cosmic Oneness
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  30
Posts :  711
Posted : Jan 16, 2008 13:56
It's all about choices and your conscience !           " All is One "

When we change the way we see things, the things we see begin to change ... In Lak'ech Ala K'in ...
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  236
Posts :  6106
Posted : Jan 17, 2009 23:54
bomp.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=earthlings&emb=0&aq=f#q=earthlings&emb=0&aq=f&dur=3





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