| Author
|
Dynamic Range in Trance Music
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 16, 2012 20:45:28
|
Hi isra,
So recently I've been reading up on Dynamic Range and the Loudness War. In particular I was looking at this website:
http://turnmeup.org/
The arguments are good and I can hear the difference...but that's recorded music, n ot in the box EDM.
What's your opinion on the state of loudness in EDM? Is it negatively affected by the loudness war, and if so how do you deal with this issue?
A lot of trance tracks I see now are super super compressed and maxed out...sure they're loud...but they kind of hurt my ears with their messy overly compressed badness.
But they're loud!
Hm. Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated!
  If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
68
Posts :
437
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 04:32
|
for me altought the main artists and label starts to push down the levels, there's no game on it.
regarding the article i don't agree that the vast majority of people don't like the effects of loudness war, maybe a musician with good ears or a sound engineer loves dynamic range, but people want it fucking loud, they don't care dynamic range and ,if they care they like it loud
even me when i didn't know a fuck about music production i remember that liked the overcompressed tracks more much than old uncompressed nitzo (infected mushroom-where is the S compared to 2005 astrix tracks remember than sounded weak and lifeless)
the thing here is that the loudest tracks it's automatically favoured, by people who listens and more important by djs
but, it will come the day when RMS are raised to the hell and there will be a huge turn back, it0s a matter of time, aes and stuff imho have less influence on this than what0's claimed in the arcticle
http://mystic-sound.com/releases/ioon-cosmic-downtempo-9314-oclock/
FREE DOWNLOAD EKTO http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/ioon-the-ioonfinite-loop
https://spiritedrecords.bandcamp.com/album/times-of-peace-2
https://soundcloud.com/opalmoonproj |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 12:16
|
this is what i wrote in my email to the mastering house doing my upcoming album:
" i would like the mastering to give priority to detail, then warmth, then dynamics and only lastly overall volume. it is important to me though, that it will sound a little bit louder than the last album you mastered for me, as this one is a bit more dancefloor oriented, but if it comes down to either volume or detail then detailed sound is the priority. "
pretty much the same instructions were given for the prior album, and if you listen to it you will find it less loud than most trance, BUT it sounds stable and every detail can be heard on even the crappiest of speakers.
this is my view on the matter. fuck the loudness wars, ruined many good tracks and albums imo, let the hiphop people fight it out 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 15:26
|
My humble opinion on why the loudness war exists in EDM is kinda simple: DJs!
When you mix 2 tracks, if you mix to a louder one, it will ALWAYS sound excellent. If you mix to a quiter one, it will sound shitty. Of course you have the gain knob, but most djs prefer not to take any risks so he will always prefer to play tracks that loud by themselves.
Louder sounds better, it's psychoaccoustics (we producers feel this a lot when processing sounds).
What I think EDM needs is a standard in RMS loudness, so we can all lower it, making music much more pleasing. The movie industry has it.
Pyrex :: Traveling without moving
www.myspace.com/pyrexperience |
|
|
|
mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1785
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 16:11
|
I dont really have an opinion, in my own work ive developed a phobia of clipping even when its transparent so my stuff doesn't qualify.
What I do have an opinion on; when warping tracks to mix in Ableton I have to lower the volume on EVERY track, both CD rips and downloads, if I don't the master channel seems to always be >0db.
Maybe I just never really noticed it when mixing with hardware, or maybe I got so used to lowering the channel trims I stopped thinking about it....
Anyway its just slightly annoying, the tracks don't clip (mostly) and they sound fine once the gain is tweaked.
I just wonder, why? Id love to hear -3db-peaking releases that dont need volume work before mixing. Its not like this stuff gets played on the radio, and its not like theres not a system-master handling the end of the signal flow at gigs who can make -12db peaking sound, sound just as loud and fat as 0db-peaking if they feel like it.
. |
|
|
|
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 16:18
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-03-17 16:11, mudpeople wrote:
I just wonder, why? Id love to hear -3db-peaking releases that dont need volume work before mixing. Its not like this stuff gets played on the radio, and its not like theres not a system-master handling the end of the signal flow at gigs who can make -12db peaking sound, sound just as loud and fat as 0db-peaking if they feel like it.
|
|
Parties involve driving the P.A. amps and mixer all the way up. People want their tracks to sound as loud as the previous track the DJ played.
There are very few parties where the person handling the P.A. is at their post all the time, sober, riding the gain and making sure all tracks have the same perceived loudness.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
|
|
|
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 18:27
|
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm
This article sums up some interesting pieces on the loudness war!
quote:
They show that loudness range doesn’t decrease after 1990, even though limiting gets much more drastic. There is no doubt about it: contrary to general belief, there has been no obvious decrease in loudness range due to the loudness war, and brickwall limiters have not reduced the loudness range in music production.
This article is talking about music in general so not really about EDM..
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 20:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-03-17 16:11, mudpeople wrote:
I dont really have an opinion, in my own work ive developed a phobia of clipping even when its transparent so my stuff doesn't qualify.
What I do have an opinion on; when warping tracks to mix in Ableton I have to lower the volume on EVERY track, both CD rips and downloads, if I don't the master channel seems to always be >0db.
Maybe I just never really noticed it when mixing with hardware, or maybe I got so used to lowering the channel trims I stopped thinking about it....
Anyway its just slightly annoying, the tracks don't clip (mostly) and they sound fine once the gain is tweaked.
I just wonder, why? Id love to hear -3db-peaking releases that dont need volume work before mixing. Its not like this stuff gets played on the radio, and its not like theres not a system-master handling the end of the signal flow at gigs who can make -12db peaking sound, sound just as loud and fat as 0db-peaking if they feel like it.
|
|
A limiter or a default saturator in ableton on the master is what I turn to for this problem - I hate red.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 22:05
|
psytrance is not as much affected as some other style of music imo still it sucks as it can sure suck the life of the tunes , give them a shorter life probably..but that today market.. ppl listen some traks they like, few days later you buy new ones and replace ..i think loudness war is a reason for this.. the music just get boring way faster to me but maybe it s cause i listen a lot on monitors. what really annoy me i find lot of tunes lack depth and it s also related to dynamic and loudness.
something to point out is rms is not very accurate to measure electronic music loudness , as it s directly related to the amount of low end |
|
|
|
Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Mar 17, 2012 22:33
|
Not into loudness war either, but in today's age it seems to be a must, unfortunately... my suggestion... find yourself a mastering engineer who can win the loudness war and keep the depth in there at the same time, they are out there, I certainly found my guy...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
|
|
|
makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Mar 18, 2012 01:17
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 18, 2012 10:43
|
|
