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Dumbing down of music depending on size of audience
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Nov 24, 2009 13:05
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Daleks - take with a hint of sarcasm. 
In any case, despite how I run down the music, what I experienced at that party was quite profound. I was impressed with the "made-up" nature of all our social institutions, how they begin and how they are followed without question afterwards.
Everyone was gathered to this event to listen to the music, get high, and generally emanate good vibes.
My analytic side got the better of me, and all I saw was many people who couldnt see beyond the arbitrariness of their actions or the self sustaining propaganda that was being broadcast.
I saw a pattern of human behaviour - basically that every one of humanities' institutions was as made up and meaningless as the ritual I was witnessing. The only contribution of any such actions is that they help us grow, procreate, recreate, and then return to our productive work environments.
No real content, the real benefits behind the ritual were all secondary and also sufficient to keep the whole thing going forward.
I contemplated how the people were motivated by impractical wishes and yet functioning in a direction created from those wishes. Unconscious units acting on base instincts forming grander patterns like bacteria on a rock. The whole of our species, just units following wishes/strategies... no-one knowing the truth of their convictions, just going on what seems best at the time.
Religion, After life, Politics, Marriage, Purpose, Happiness. All made up. No real bulletproof knowledge ever, just best effort approximations or perspectives.
Perhaps I would have been distracted from having such thoughts of community if there were better music.
Anyway I had a fun time. Thanks All for comments. Im happy Im not the only one to see the "big party" effect. |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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Posted : Nov 24, 2009 15:17
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On 2009-11-24 13:05, bukboy wrote:every one of humanities' institutions was as made up and meaningless as the ritual I was witnessing. The only contribution of any such actions is that they help us grow, procreate, recreate, and then return to our productive work environments.
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That productive work environment itself is therefore another meaningless human institution and as such has no more intrinsic value than the festival which nonetheless gave you this insight, which you deemed important enough to share.
I think grasping the subjectivity of human existance and all that drives it and that results from it is a very valid perspective, and IMO as long as it makes one less judgemental, more forgiving and less solipsistic it's a very positive thing to come away from a festival with.
We'll see you in tie-dye yet
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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803
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 09:11
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Just a technical point really,
but how does one distinguish good and bad values like being less judgemental and forgiveing, against being a bigoted authoritarian state builder, if all the above are meaningless creations within a subjective framework?
They're all good for someone and bad for someone else. Ultimately even the strategies selfishness and selflessness are in a neverending competition. Sometimes you have to stick with the crowd, other times you have to go lone wolf otherwise the community will take advantage.
My point is how can you "grasp subjectivity" and still have a stance or a moral highground? Seems like cognitive dissonance to me. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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60
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 09:32
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There are/is a lot of cognitive dissonance to deal with!
Hey what the correct sentence? Are or is? or does it not matter? |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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34
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584
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 10:08
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bukboy, no worries, just jazzn ya 
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On 2009-11-25 09:11, bukboy wrote:
but how does one distinguish good and bad values like being less judgemental and forgiveing, against being a bigoted authoritarian state builder, if all the above are meaningless creations within a subjective framework?
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thats kind of a leading if-then statement, isnt it? I dont see how the 2 necessarily connect, or validate eachother..
you should really give us more credit for being around for 30-50,000 years. the institutions, rituals and customs of tribal to present day society have an incerdible amount of thought put into them with tried and true methodolgy tested over aeons.
from beer brewing, to child-rearing, to the institutions of marriage, to food produciton, local delicacies, all have this great deal of heart and thought put into them, without which we would really lead a drab and no doubt mud-covered, savage existence. that we have these things and refined then from coming out of the mud of the primal stew means that we are able to pass information to our children in a stable environment where they dont run rabid (ideally anway), that we can enjoy life most of all, and express our creativity in new and exciting ways. whats it all for? well it gives us some class for one. aliens or other sentient intelligences might even think were a little interesting..
now, the real question is now that we have all this great technological advance, and comfort, how can we put the heart that our ancestors put into these rituals back into our everyday existence to raise everyone up to the same level? more people happy=better world, i think thats the real meaning we are searching for now. not the better TV. i could be wrong though..
another interesting thread, thought it was getting a little dull in here j/k
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 10:22
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sorry that was a bit off topic...
imo, organizers present a microcosm of the dilemna our society faces as a whole. how to balance innovation with perceived safety of the status quo, and the scary prospect of loosing money aka economic pressure
one of the problems as i see it, is nobody wants to take risks anymore. all of the music hitting the airwaves with very few exceptions compared to the 90s or even the 80s is just plain boring albeit well produced pop fluff. take that as one indicator
how to solve it? its not easy, but I think we need better leadership for one. i know everyones having a tough time, but from record labels to organizers, to the big name artists, i'd like to see everyone give a little back to the community in the form of bringing up and promoting new talent instead of just worrying about their own skins. thats how it used to work, successful artists, etc would form their own labels, and start scouting out new music, organizers would scout good supporting acts for the type of sound they were trying to showcase,and on and on, but somewhere along the line, it got broken, now it needs to get fixed
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 10:40
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Its this egocentric time we live in...
everyone just trying to keep their act alive! Not letting in fresh artists, and not knowing when its time to take a break and get some inspiration from these new artist that might not have as much knowledge but a great urge to create...
i know this dude who made music for fun using reason, he turned the rack around and just start putting cables in the most strange places creating very weird sounds, i told him it sounded very cool and he said, i have no idea what i am doing, but i did so from that point of view, we can learn so much from people that have not lost the spark to really experiment! Cause we all know it, after a while you get stuck in patterns!
Maybe its just a phase and psytrance will soon unleash the real psychedelia in music that will shake the way we see things and even interact with eachother.. Soundwaves piercing through our membranes and causing enlightenment!
haha im just tired...
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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803
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 12:11
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daleks - Did you know that 500 million years ago we and all vertebrates (creatures that have spines) had a common ancestor with annelid worms?
Sort of makes sense. Long body, different front and back because the up and down in water is different, whereas symmetrical left and right because the left and right in water is not different.
mouth on forward side, anus on reverse side. sensory organs (two eyes and ears and a brain) on the front to direct the mouth to food.
I see us currently as evolved worms. Im very amused by how wormlike all the FTV models are. Basically wormlike with cute faces and extruded appendages. Politicians look like fat worms.
Just carrying on with trying to survive in our environment, constantly recreating ourselves in the process of evolution and recreating the environment as well as a side effect. Both feeding back on each other.
In any case, I see heart (and community) as just another institution for growth. Not good or bad, just usefull. It helped us, but does not mean it needs to be worshipped above all else.
If you look at plants as providers and animals as parasites, you could come to the conclusion that parasites are always more interesting.
The providers in society being harvested by parasites coming to some balance, neither good nor bad. just a stable system.
Why be so enamoured by heart.
Anyway. very off topic. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 12:19
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nothing needs to be worshipped but music
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 18:07
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Not to bash anyone, but this is another reason why I like living in america (in relation to the psy scene). Our scene is still small enough that it hasn't lost much stride to any sort of commercial movements (aka it's rare to see a party thrown that is just trying to get as many attendees as possible). Most of the time when this happens it's at a club, so it's not surprising or entirely the promoter's agenda.
I throw parties expecting to lose money (although we try as best we can to break even) and I don't care about that. Money is the last thing on my mind when throwing parties (I collect all the required admissions and don't exactly let people in for free for no reason, but trying to make money or break even aren't big concerns of mine). If I break even that's a huge plus, but doesn't matter to me. Often times we'll book artists/djs that almost no one has heard of and they will end up impressing everyone at the party because they play good music. This allows us to keep bringing in unheard of acts since people that come to our parties will expect good music no matter who is playing. Not many people in the US know many psy artists or djs anyway so this isn't a driving factor for people to come or not (aka we don't have to book a big commercial name to get people to come.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 20:42
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Quote:
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On 2009-11-25 18:07, Ascension wrote:
Not to bash anyone, but this is another reason why I like living in america (in relation to the psy scene). Our scene is still small enough that it hasn't lost much stride to any sort of commercial movements (aka it's rare to see a party thrown that is just trying to get as many attendees as possible). Most of the time when this happens it's at a club, so it's not surprising or entirely the promoter's agenda.
I throw parties expecting to lose money (although we try as best we can to break even) and I don't care about that. Money is the last thing on my mind when throwing parties (I collect all the required admissions and don't exactly let people in for free for no reason, but trying to make money or break even aren't big concerns of mine). If I break even that's a huge plus, but doesn't matter to me. Often times we'll book artists/djs that almost no one has heard of and they will end up impressing everyone at the party because they play good music. This allows us to keep bringing in unheard of acts since people that come to our parties will expect good music no matter who is playing. Not many people in the US know many psy artists or djs anyway so this isn't a driving factor for people to come or not (aka we don't have to book a big commercial name to get people to come.
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Sounds good!
Like it should be, On small scale its possible! Otherwise you had to be rich to throw a big party and let everyone in for free and have all necessities! That sometime is needed by law! And as more commercial you want it the more you have to follow rules and regulations..
I like parties on a small scale best, With people that dont use so much drugs, i Think its the drugs thats dumbing down on this scene, Both on artists and dancers!
Still some drugs can make you see things in a different perspective which might be nice sometimes! but generally i think its too much focus on the drugs sometimes...
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AumShantiAum
IsraTrance Junior Member
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911
Posted : Nov 30, 2009 23:55
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i think its quite obvious that music is dumbed down for larger audiences. Lets be honest the amount of ppl that actually enjoy the very psychedelic psytrance is quite small. Smaller parties definitely have that small psychedelic family feeling. Everyone is on psychedelics. At the larger parties (and I have never even been to a massive festival with tens of thousands of ppl) it seems more people are on xtc/mdma and just wanna dance to whatever music as long as it has a beat
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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2848
Posted : Dec 18, 2009 15:37
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well i think the music itself has not dumbed down its the ones who are making it...structurally and production wise most of the psytrance coming out is perfect...its just that the beats, basslines and melodies are nearly identically..especially in full on and dark psy...even progy is getting to be that way...i am also sad to see that suomi too is becoming monotonous...also the problem i see is that except for a few artist most music that is coming out is just good for a couple of listens and then its boring. there are no real anthems that are coming out, like they used to in the past. somehow something is missing. the music does seem to be cut copy paste, and changing order. i also see that many of the musicians in the scene today dont seem to play any musical instrument, and even if they do its mostly the keyboard or synthesizer or the guitar...the sound is indeed amazing but i guess our ears have become so accustomed to them that we feel any further or continued listening to this style will not tickle our ear drums or excite us..well its called the POP syndrome---what it means is that once something becomes popular either in vision or audio, its mystic nature disappears and thus becomes unappealing and looses its charm and shine...until such a time that a breakthrough track or album comes...psytrance is in its stagnation phaze...its in this phaze where many people will find it attractive but the old listeners will not enjoy this period.
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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