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Drum Programming Methods, Tips, and Tricks
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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841
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 08:30
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Hi everybody,
One thing that has always been a bit difficult for me is really getting down a solid way to do the drums for a song. I decided it would be a good idea to start a thread where people might share how they go about programming their drum parts. What they use and how they use it. This way we can share tips and tricks and maybe help to make all of our drums alot better.
I'll start...
Equipment:
Cubase 4, Stylus RMX, Battery 3
Samples:
Thomas Penton essential drums & percussion
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(I still need some help with really getting my drums to sound great but here are the methods I use so far)
So for starters, any of my basic drum programing such as, regular hats, off hats, kick drum etc I usually do in battery. I then sequence in Cubase. Up till now I have been using the drum map, but I'm begining to think it would be better to use regular notes so I can control the length the sample plays. This way one hit could be short and one could be long, but still be the same sample, helping me to have variety without having to load alot of samples.
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Kick:
For my kick drum I tend to use the simple sine wave type ones (ala infected mushroom tutorial/ or BazzISM etc...) . I try and make sure that the kick is short enough that it doesn't interfere with the bassline at all. I also make sure to use compression that can let the transient of the kick through in order to make sure it still has punch after compression. I tend to go between about 5 different samples and tune them differently depending on the song. I guess once you have favorites it's good to use them.
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Snares:
With snares, this can vary. Though I tend to use ones that have alot of noise in them, instead of ones that just have tone. I also may layer a couple or just trigger a couple at one time, or maybe layer it with a noisy clap. I also like to use short snares for accents and reverse snares as well for the same. They also obviously work well for snare rolls. I also may load a few different ones and use different ones for different parts of the song.
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Hi-Hats:
For hats I like to make sure that they don't have much tone either. I don't think you should really be able to hear the metal part of the hat very much, more just the noise. I can always add more noise in battery.
With the closed hats, I like to set up a few things to be controlled by velocity. Maybe a filter cutoff that just changes slightly at high velocity levels, or the decay of the volume, and of course the volume itself.
This way I can make a regular closed hat pattern with 4 hits per beat and just go through and make patterns or variations by changing the velocity.
The other thing I do with closed hats is to load up 3 or 4 different ones. Then make sure to switch which the one i'm using at different parts of the song. This gives variety in the drums so it's not the same all the way through.
With the open hat I don't have many tips, I like to use ones that have a similar "roundness" to the 909 one. I may add some noise to it as well and try to make sure it doesn't have much tone either. I don't want the tone interfering with the other note dependent parts of the song. Really the length I think is the most important part to making it work well with the snare and the other drums.
Also I've learned not to keep the Open hat in all the time. If you don't have it there then you bring it in, it can really add some drive to the song. So maybe hold off for a while and bring it in later. Or bring it in and out. Don't be afraid to go down to just really simple drums at parts of the song.
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Stylus RMX:
The way I like to use Stylus RMX, is to go through and try out different drum loops until I find one that sounds really good with the song, more the sounds then the pattern really.
Then I go and make my own pattern with it in the sequencer. Or maybe just use a few sounds from it. The nice thing about this as these loops are pretty well made, most of the drums go together really well. So it's sorta like using the drum loop as a drum kit.
The other reason I like Stylus RMX is because of it's FX. They are made to be used with drums. Just a nice limiter and a little reverb, maybe some distortion, and the drum just come to life. They sound very "full" and real (but not necessarily in the sense of a drummer playing a trap set).
The other thing is the amount of sonic destruction crazyness you can do to it. Alot of times the drum parts end up becoming FX parts.
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General Layout Tips:
Not much here since I'm still working on it, but I'll tell you what I have learned at least.
Patterns of your drums can be anything you want really. Keeping it simple and not trying to over do it helps. Rather than having all your drums going at once, take some out and replace it with a different one. Make them change throughout the song.
Also don't save your drum accents etc till you are done with the song. You wont add them or the will just seem like they are just thrown in there for good measure.
Do all your drum accents and tricks and little rolls and things like that while you are making the song. This way these parts become an actual extention of what is already going on in the song at that point. They may even help you to figure out what would sound good in the next part of the song.
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So anyway, these are some of the things I know. It's not alot, and it's always been difficult finding a way that works well that I want to stick with.
Please add little tricks and tips that you know. You don't have to do it in the way I did above (it was a tad long). But anything that you can think of that has really helped your drum programing...please...share. 
Cheers,
~Airyck~
  ~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 10:18
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For drum sounds that don't have a lot of low-frequency energy it also helps to use panning in a question-answer type of fashion, with one part of the phrase (question) to the left and the other part to the right (answer). A little bit of stereo delay on hats and other percussions can make the mix more dynamic.
For snares it can help to program ghost-notes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_note
to add to the groove.
Turning off quantize, or using a different "swing/groove" quantize setting for the different drum parts can also add some swing.
I also like to send the drums to a quadrafuzz and increase the distortion-drive as the intensity of the track increases.
When programming drums i use different sequencer tracks for different sounds, with short blocks of 1 or 2 bars. This helps to give an overview of the way the drum-track is structured. I use color-coding or part-naming to indicate variations in the patterns.
Cheers.
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
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984
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 14:19
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reverb on kick/snares/claps also important!
flanger/phaser on close hihats can be very nice!
different velocity is very important for close hihats!
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
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1220
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 17:40
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kick: I still use samples for my kicks, without any compression...to change the sound of them I mainly use a bit of eq and izotope trash with just 2 of 4 bands and tiny settings, sometimes I put also fullband distortion on the kick for breaks
snares: for the snares on each 2nd kick I use mostly 2 layered samples (2 snares or 1 snare and 1 clap), a short one for the attack and a longer one for the bottom, both melt together with just slightly different settings, decay and sustain are also pretty important there...I usually like to put a lopass filter on them with a good part of resonance...for the other rythm snares I use more attack to put them a bit in the background, but its also nice to put one of the 2 snares from the second kick 2 or 3/16th later for a 2nd time...usually adds a nice groove! those rythmic snares I pan a bit inside the sampler, the ones on each 2nd kick stay usually in the center to give them more punch...
I do all this in one channel, whats not the best option I think, but its good to melt the drum parts together and seperate them a bit from the other drums...anyway, I usually eq them a bit and put a wide open lopass on the whole channel...after that I use an exciter or distortion depending on the track...using izotope spectrons pan with tiny settings and modulated bands can also work pretty nice to open the stereo image of the drum track a bit more...last I use a big reverb with very low dry wet ratio 
Hihats: for the closed hats I like to use one channel with 2-3 different samples for a groove and a 2nd channel for the 16th closed hat (where I have 3-4 different ones changing during the track)...my groove hats usually got a bit more lows, panning and attack than the 16th hats, velocity is also pretty important for them! the 16th are the highest of my hats...I like them in most of my tracks a bit more in the background...for velocity I usually do a 1/4th rythm where I lower the velocity a bit more on the kick and on the open hat...my open hats I like low and present, but still in the background...sometimes I use a 2nd open hat (with less volume and velocity) to add a bit of extra groove to it...all these hihat channels I eq slightly different and use different exciter or distortion settings and different reverbs...for example a wooden reverb works pretty nice on the open hats and a short reverb on the 16th, and maybe an ambiance reverb on the groove hat...this adds again more groove to the different hats 
thats my way to work on drums right now...hope it helped a bit
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 21:37
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Really good tips so far..Thanx guys for adding to the thread.
Anybody heard of NY Compression, where you compress the hell out of your drum bus and mix it with the original drum signal?
How many of you use a Korg PadKontrol, or Trigger Finger to play your drums out? Why do you use it if you do?
Also I guess how many people play drums on their keyboard, or just play them somehow instead of writing them in the sequencer...?
Why?
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Jeto
Jeto
Started Topics :
258
Posts :
3252
Posted : Jun 7, 2007 21:56
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I previously used to program all my drums with audio samples dropping them into the arrangement from the audio pool. I recently started playing my drums on a keyboard @ a slower tempo, quantizing them and then speeding things up. I find it easy to play and make grooves at a slower BPM. It sounds more groovy and when fastened up gives it a nice swing.
I use BATTERY 3 for all my drums and Stylus RMX as well.
The cool thing I like about Stylus is you can drop the "Midi File" into the arrangment and edit the loop to your needs. Killer!
https://www.djjeto.com |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Jun 8, 2007 11:01
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Quote:
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On 2007-06-07 21:37, psylevation wrote:
Anybody heard of NY Compression, where you compress the hell out of your drum bus and mix it with the original drum signal?
Also I guess how many people play drums on their keyboard, or just play them somehow instead of writing them in the sequencer...?
Why?
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I heard of the NY compression trick and i use it sometimes, it works really well if you need a fat snare. Here's the trick: create a send effect channel with a compressor in it. Hit the compressor hard, with a ratio of say 10:1 and fast attack and release times (the UAD-1 1176 LN or Waves SSL are ideal for this) Put an eq on this effect channel after the comp, and boost around 100 Hz and 10 Khz approximately with 6 dB's. Then increase the level of the compressed snare sound in the mix using the return-fader of the compressor+eq and sneak it in under the original snare sound until it sounds fat.
I occasionally play drums with my keyboard, but i find it pretty hard to get the timing and velocity right. Maybe a drumpad would help. But anyway, i prefer to use groove-boxes like Guru or Reaktor's Massive to do basic drum sequence parts. After making a lot of audio clips of different parts like this i like to chop them up and edit them (mostly removing things that clash) to make the final drum-part.
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
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841
Posted : Jun 11, 2007 19:18
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Thanx Boobytrip, I'm going to give that a try. I'm almost done with a new track so I guess I could try that style of compression on the drum track now.
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Jun 11, 2007 20:29
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play with panning, for example i like a tambourine a bit on the left and a cymbal on the right ,play with velocitie and ghost snares to add more groove ,you can add a room verb with short tail (i like around 0.7sec)it ll fatten the beat .about the production it s all about the sample you use and tuning/equing.let say if you cut your open hat with a eq around 2000 juts to get it tuned you loose all the body of the sound,so tune it with the sampler insteed ,the beat ll sound more big. |
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astrotec
Started Topics :
7
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193
Posted : Jun 12, 2007 18:10
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you're right pom, probably the most important part of percussion is the tuning part. |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
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988
Posted : Jun 12, 2007 18:22
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@ psylevation: it helps to use a spectral analyzer like Voxengo's Span to check where your kick and bass live, and see if there's some space where you can boost the snare (around 100 Hz.) without interfering with them too much. Also, if you're using a send-reverb on the snare, try to put a hi-pass eq before it to remove the low freqs and pan the reverb a bit out of the way of the snare to avoid masking the original snare sound. Keep the snare in the centre of the mix if your're boosting the lows, so both speakers can support the bass freqs.
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 13, 2007 00:02
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I have a spectrum analyzer that I use, so that will work.
Also how do you go about tuning your drums? Do you just tune them up and down till they sound right? Or do you have another method?
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Jun 13, 2007 00:24
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i have a new addition to my drum persussion rig, which is bassically battery and stylus as most of u guys and is the Melodyne plugin, its just great. it has the most easy to use yet great sounding pitchshifting and timestretching,, im loving it!!! great for vocals too.. |
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astrotec
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
193
Posted : Jun 13, 2007 00:41
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Quote:
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On 2007-06-13 00:02, psylevation wrote:
Also how do you go about tuning your drums? Do you just tune them up and down till they sound right? Or do you have another method?
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use your ears,
or a spectrum analysis in wavelab or soundforge |
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Pypedream
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
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245
Posted : Jun 13, 2007 01:10
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Boobytrip ~
Can you tell how and why you prefer Massive for drum parts?
When I open this device in R5 I tend to stare at the GUI for about 5 minutes then give up. I've had much better luck using Aerobic but unfortunately it does not handle any external samples. Maybe I should take another look?
ELECTRON EYES / MARK-EVAN (NOR. CAL)
WWW.SOUNDCLOUD.COM/MARK-EVAN |
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