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Double Standards...or something.
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AhmedTaburov
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
294
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 13:33
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A few months ago I posted a topic with a question:What is the BEAT HACKERS stands for?As you already guesed is was DELETED...So o.k...I understand-this is not the best question of the forum,also it's pretty private.But there was one thing that pissed me off (and still is!!!).Someone posted a topic about black peolpe at trance parties...BLACK PEOPLE AT TRANCE PARTIES!!!First of all this is a simple RACISM!!!Secondly-this is an ISRAELI forum.I know there is a freedom of speech (???)here but I think this was a very BAD topic to post!!!Am I wrong??? |
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karnaf
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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1745
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 17:19
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It's hard for me to reply to this post, cause I cant find both threads - your deleted one and the one about black ppl in parties.
Have you contacted the relevant moderators about those things? (i.e. asked the one who deleted your thread why and asked the one in charge of the section with the 'black' thread why it is still there?)
Ppl, the moderators and team are here to help the forum and you. talk to them and I trust they will be happy to answer and help.
cheers.
karnaf.
 Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
http://www.savetherhino.org |
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AhmedTaburov
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
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294
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 18:07
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But the harm is done...p.s===>TiMMY you are right!!!
===> |
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TiMMY
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
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1480
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 20:50
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(Finally it works...)
I remember the black people thread.
Upon reading something like this, you gotta ask yourself - what was the motive behind it? was it racist?
In this case, I don't think so.
This is the best way to moderate IMO - to use reasoning.
This is not 100% mistake-free method but it's better than deleting anything that looks bad at first glance. |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 21:15
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Then a question? What about all the comments about Arsim's in the many many posts in this forum? I doubt you can say that the endless judgemental comments about them aren't done deliberate  Still none of those post and comments get moderated... How come?
I sure do see a lot of doublestandard in this forum. Deliberately or not.
A part from that it's a great forum that could be even better if some of the moderators would ease up a little or stop moderating out of personal taste and believes. |
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TiMMY
IsraTrance Full Member
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100
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1480
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 21:30
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Infact I did delete some posts with "Arsim".
Once again I do the same test - was this word meant as a racist comment or to describe general atmosphere crowd?
Sometimes it's hard to figure it out, but that's life, and mostly I prefer not to delete because this word is VERY common in Israel. Personally, I too use this word to describe the crowd I don't want to see in a party, but it doesn't mean it's racist.
I know many people who may look like arsim but they're extremely nice and I'll be happy to party with them. |
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AhmedTaburov
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
294
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 21:49
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But what was so "wrong" with my Beat Hackers question???
===> |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 21:54
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But you yourself have just nailed the whole doublestandard down with 10 inch nailes when you say that the term Arsim is just a way to descibe people that you dont like in a party. You even admit that you use the word yourself even though you do like some people that look like them. Already here I get sceptical 
Then my question is. How can you then moderate a topic where the word is used when you yourself use it? Your clearly not objective in this matter then.
Where do you draw the line? It obvious to me that many Isralie "real" psy/goatrancers call people that do not behave the "right" way at the parties or look different for Arsim's. I do not support violence, stealing ect. in parties...Just to make that clear!
But no matter if it's a common "term" or not in Israel it's still quite racistic and judgemental. Especially since you very well know that a Arsim is a darker tanned person in Israel that's by some is considered not so intelligent and educated. This is the describtion I have heard over and over again when I asked trance people in Israel about the word Arsim.
I do know it's a thin line your walking on as a moderator... But as long as I am not allowed to post political views or protest about some racist individuals in this forum (which I respect most of the time) then I dont see why it's ok to even once post the word Arsim about people just because you dont like them. See my point? Why not just with a firm hand close such topics immediately? No matter what the intention was with the use of the word... It will always remain racistic and judgemental and not at all openminded as this scene and it's people praise itself to be |
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ShivaS
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
861
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 22:08
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you guys are never tired of catching spicey failovers;)
I may rise, but I won't shine ... |
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TiMMY
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1480
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 22:30
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I've already made it clear that what's important when moderating are not the words themselves but the context.
Examples:
Something I will delete - "Crowd - Full of stupid arsim. I've had enough of seeing this kind of people in parties."
Something I won't delete - "Crowd - Mostly arsim, doesn't look like they came for the music" (sorry for the lame qoute, but you get the idea I hope).
On the other hand, I will most certainly delete something like this: "brown people are stupid, violent,arrogant and they all take E."
You see? No mention of the word arsim. It's the context that matters.
Try and search the word "arsim" in the Party Reviews forum, I'm sure you'll find many matches, most of them not too racist. It's indeed not realistic and also unfair to start deleting each and every reply.
Also, you can try checking the Party Reviews forum more frequently, Maybe you'll see what we do delete (and we do that sometimes).
That has absoulutly nothing to do with you posting political views. If you think someone is a racist you can tell him on PM. Also, I think if somebody is truely a racist most people would see him for what he really is without you needing to tell him.
I hope you understand that I'm the last person to be racist. Arsim is a word like every other word, therefore it's not the word itself, it's how you use it. |
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karnaf
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1745
Posted : Feb 15, 2004 22:49
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Candy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
184
Posts :
2273
Posted : Feb 16, 2004 07:43
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Timmy, I couldn't have explained it better.
Majority is never right!
"Without music, life is meaningless."
-Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Apocalypse Now
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
62
Posts :
933
Posted : Feb 16, 2004 10:00
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It says right on top of the DJ and Artists section:
Quote:
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Please use search, most questions about artists (such as who is this and that) have already been asked. Please don't be lazy (the search link is on the top left). Question that have been asked already will be deleted |
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This is most likely what happened. If you knew what kind of mess that place was before Surrender went in there and spent days and days cleaning things up, you would definitely not be complaining.
There are almost 3000 people here on this forum, and thousands more just watching on, there needs to be some kind of rules to make sure that things flow smoothly around here. There are no conspiracy theories here, no one is trying to hold you back.
I think that thread you were talking about that Traveller started was great. There were a couple of dumb responses (which generally reflect a portion of population that feel the same way) but all in all it was a very nice thread. It's good to talk about that kind of stuff I think.
Both teams played hard |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Feb 16, 2004 14:46
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It seem to me that some of the moderators have a hard time dealing with constructive critisism when it's moderators moderating
Why a "sigh".. Is it that boring to you karnaf?
I respect TIMMY for explaning himself even though I think he's contradicting himself a bit
Anyway I am am sure some moderators will see my post as a constructive critisism that are not aimed to attack anyone but just raising a question of the moderator's objectivity in concerning certain issues.... And then again some will properly just see it's critisim of them personally... I can only say that it's not the case! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Feb 16, 2004 14:55
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-15 22:08, ShivaS wrote:
you guys are never tired of catching spicey failovers;)
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Well you should be happy that some of us dont blindly think that everything you guys and gals do and say is correct
The day that everyone stop questioning Authorities the world will be a sad place to live in.
Anyway I do think the moderators do a very good job... But as all humans they do mistakes sometimes colored by their own taste and believes ... Mistakes that should be looked at constructive and hopefully realized by themselves.
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