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Does religion still have a place in this scene?
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 5, 2010 03:05
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The attitude was that everybody was welcome on the dance-floor no matter religious, political believes or sexuality etc.
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Yes this is good ,and i agree with this,but this is not what i am talking about |
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Fometrius
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Posted : May 5, 2010 05:44
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V3NOM
Inactive User
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Posted : May 5, 2010 08:31
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I've always thought that the outdoor partying, especially the European and other western variations, have more to do with old pagan festivities and worshipping than any form of Asian/Indian worship and wonder why, at least at the many I went to in Scandinavia, England, Ireland, Eastern Europe, Australia n' New Zealand over the last 12 odd years never had designs that reflected more pagan imagery... I find thinking back on most of these events in said countries had a more pagan feeling to them than even the more underground black n; pagan folk metal gigs I've been to in the same areas...
Anyway, am really enjoying all the comments that have been coming through in this thread 
 I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 5, 2010 10:50
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indeed, a very interesting thread which is worth reading. it is a nice reflection of the scene of nowadays.
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| The only thing one can think is good with this is that it attracts more people,but if it attracts wrong people then it is only bad.Which obviously is the case here. |
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i like your words Frometrius, you are definitely one of those charackters that i would like to meet at psy trance events.
But in this sentence above i only have a question in my mind. Is any of us really open minded towards others, without judging them, without dividing them into " better come" and " better not come" to trance. i guess, none of is open minded any more.
the first type of dudes prefer no spiritual stuff or any spirit freaks at the partys and the second type of dudes say that it is better if the " wrong people" dont come. so we actually generally dont wanna have each other at the same events. we talk more about spirit and love than any other scene on this planet, but we are more divided than hell.
i was looking for a quote from two days ago, a sentence someone wrote about our self reflection. so true.
we have always thought that we are better than any other alternative movement, than any other music scene.
more spiritual, more open minded, more free, more beautiful, more colourful, more dark with a style, we are more lovely than any other scene, we are more intelligent and more visionary, we have indeed the best music on the planet.
and anyway, how much truth is there inside. what if we have mistaken completely what will be the future of trance, as we were saying that in trance we die many years ago.
i mean seriously the scene is so divided, you see it in this thread so clear....the ones dont want the others to tell them what is right, and the second ones dont like the first ones to come, cause they are majority and they are the wrong people.
but hey, this is we. we are not gonna become other people. this is the way it is. when are we finally gonna accept each other
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kazuku
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Posted : May 5, 2010 13:51
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Sure people can trance how they like, believe what they like, or not believe anything at all. All are welcome unless they start to impose intolerance and their own dogmas on other people. However, those people who discredit any spiritual aspects have obviously no interest in these matters. The 'psy' in psytrance has no meaning to them, they do not seem to grasp that an underground psychedelic scene has more at it's heart than getting high... To them psychedelic means drugs and seeing "trippy shit", without ever grasping the roots, never attempting to see and take to heart what our psychelic tribe has layed out for us in the symbols, track titles, eso and exoteric meanings, sacred geometry... These things can serve as signposts and orientation points, as carriers of messages for those searching. Psychelic culture is fair ... It gives you exactly what you are looking for inside it... If you want to dance and get high, fine. If you are looking for something more, it is possible to find this too if you look in the right places. Just don't cramp anyones flow while doing whatever you are doing. For some the dancefloor might be 'some muddy patch of grass to get high on, for others it might be a place to find healing, a ritual ground or whatever else....
IMHO psytrance is psytrance because truth is stranger than fiction 
Each to their own .... 
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kazuku
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Posted : May 5, 2010 14:13
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Just to clarify and make my last post a little more ontopic...
The symbols in psytance are constantly evolving, psyculture has a pirate nature to It, It likes to highjack and borrow, assimilate and discard symbols from religion ammoungst other areas... It is not so much worshipping these deities and symbols, but using them to show the truth, as vectors to point us to something...Imho The trance/psychedlic experience transcends any single religion, imho ot harbors truths and principles underlying all religions..in trance all religions are united Just like any culture uses symbols to tell stories and report experiences to those with eyes to see, so does psyculture.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 5, 2010 14:27
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| However, those people who discredit any spiritual aspects have obviously no interest in these matters. The 'psy' in psytrance has no meaning to them, they do not seem to grasp that an underground psychelic scene has more at it's heart than getting high... |
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there are a lot of people who understand the word psy much more in terms of psy science - psychology, neurology, mathematics of sound, psychoactive biology... psychedelic art in formula , psychedelic appearance ( which is often confused with fashion but it is an art form).
is this spiritual? lots of them discredit religions and spirituality too, they stick into the logic of psy. so whats with them....?
i mean that there is really the possibility to understand the word psy and not to understand the word religion and spirituality.
how does wikipedia define religion for example:
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| A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. |
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very simple actually. do you see a religion that is observable within the trance scene according to this definition? und even if we have a ritual here and there ( and i am not including those sort of events where a freak decides to destroy and burn a bag of kox ritually), even if it happens from time to time in terms of a ritual, where is this "supernatural agency" which created the world and the psychedelic movement? i mean we project this function always onto a couple of human stars and believe that this is all. but as far as we dont see that they are just channels and bridges to a supernatural power, we are only blindmen, talking about a psychedelic religion and spirituality which has never existed.
so we actually discredit those who dont see psy as a spiritual thing. they are the majority, they invaded the scene and conquered it completely. the scene in their hands.
the question is, how many of those people have this divine connection to the sound as a supernatural force?
the one and only supernatural being in our culture is the sound. and i think that anyone who sees this in this way, is a spiritual person - as far as the sound is not just physics, fashion, fame and money.
it is just a new kind of a religion.
and what i try to say all the time.
it hurts like hell.
it really does.
why do i see so few people who really believe in the sound as a supernatural force. who are thos who killed my psy religion and dont let it back on the floors. is it a bad thing to put a curse on them?
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kameleonpangea36
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Posted : May 5, 2010 17:21
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kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 5, 2010 17:42
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Either people want to see and hear and feel big picture stuff Or they don't....psychedelic art and cultire operates on many levels thankfully.
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : May 5, 2010 17:44
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 5, 2010 17:52
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Kazuku, great posts (all three on this page). I thought I'd leave a comment - but I could not have said it better. 
Buddha Monkey, behold my psychic powers! You really don't mind the Sun Wheel.
So, now I am turning your own question back at you: how different would it be, if you saw Norse imagery instead of Hindu or Buddhist? Is your question really about religion in general or just a religion you don't support?
(I personally consider the Sun Wheel to be an universal human symbol, although it's been highjacked by Neopagans and white supremacists. But it sounds to me like you wouldn't mind a Valkirie here and there too. Maybe I am wrong...) |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : May 6, 2010 06:39
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On 2010-05-05 17:21, kameleonpangea36 wrote:
This lack of historical knowledge from so many atheist is what makes me not want to debate this sort of stuff.
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I know you said you don't want to debate but I am still curious as to your meaning of the term "historical knowledge" and how it supports the validity of religion, if that is indeed what you are saying.
P.S. @ Maine Coon: Thor owns all!
P.P.S. Speaking of Norse religions, I find it interesting that the Norse religion was centered around the idea that the world is going to end in chaos and darkness, and there's nothing you can do to save yourself from it... you don't really see that sort of structure anywhere else. |
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Ascension
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Posted : May 6, 2010 16:02
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On 2010-05-05 17:21, kameleonpangea36 wrote:
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On 2010-05-05 02:10, Beat Agency wrote:
That's why I dont buy in to he whole spiritual fashion trend.
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You mean something that has been around for thousands of years??
atheism is the new trend homie.
This lack of historical knowledge from so many atheist is what makes me not want to debate this sort of stuff.
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Atheism has been around for centuries (many prominent individuals throughout history were atheists- Albert Einstein, Ben Franklin and Abe Lincoln, to name a few) it only has recently surfaced as a more popular ideology due to how previous atheists were repressed by religious groups. It's not as much of a trend as it is a collective of realizations of what people have discovered when they give religion a closer look.
Look at the state of major religions in the world today, it's obvious that people would want to get away from a large religion like Catholicism. I have a bigger problem with people being fake about religions and beliefs than I do with religions in general. Something doesn't seem right about claiming to be a highly spiritual person and going to parties to get drunk and dance.
Obviously in this scene we want to be open to different thoughts and beliefs, but it's the people that attempt to do this, but are fake about it that really ruin it imo. http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
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Posted : May 6, 2010 17:00
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I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
—Albert Einstein
And neither was Abe Lincoln an atheist btw....
And according to wiki regarding Mr Franklin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_franklin#Virtue.2C_religion.2C_and_personal_beliefs
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting. |
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Ascension
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Posted : May 6, 2010 17:12
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