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¿Do you want minimal in the psytrance main floors?
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psy-goa
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133
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 04:15
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no! |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 11:57
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On 2010-10-13 22:34, Maine Coon wrote:
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On 2010-10-13 18:59, disco hooligans wrote:
Should one be forced to dance to full-on/darkpsy/suomi, in the main trance stage then?
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It�s one of them rhetorical tricks, a.k.a. impossible choices, a.k.a. false dilemmas: no mater how one answers this question he is going to be at fault (or at least look like a jerk). Well done!  |
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Wrong. For me the choice is obvious, one shouldn't be forced to dance to subgenres of psychedelic trance that have distanced them selves from psy-trance. For me 125BPM of white noise bursts and clicky pops are as far from psy-trance as 160BPM of dissonant FM and walls of glitch.
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On 2010-10-13 22:34, Maine Coon wrote:
The dilemma here is �should we force people who don�t like [XYZ style] to dance to this style?� vs. �should we force people who like [XYZ style] to miss it in their dance�. That�s what your question really means and that�s what most of this discussion boils down to. |
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We should not force anyone to dance or miss any kind of sound in their party, hence why I say that we either put up a bunch of different stages, or people will ang and bitch about people playing techno/dark/full-on whatever on the main stage.
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On 2010-10-13 22:34, Maine Coon wrote:
Of course, this dilemma is false, since one does not have to choose between the two options presented. Nobody needs to be forced to do or not do anything at all. You take a walk and enjoy the weather, that�s all. If that ruins your experience so much that you hate yourself for coming to this festival � boycott it next year. Go to one that is closer to your preferences. When enough people like you do that, organizers will take notice. If you are a part of a miserable esoteric minority � your opinion does not matter anyway. So, there is no point in complaining or theorizing how it all "should" be.
Capitalism in action.
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Its a small forum that has 0 impact on the actual scene.
I fail to see capitalism in action on this thread, and regarding the people that will choose to not go to next year's Boom, for example. Outside this forum people have talked and given feedback about said festival and the line up. On here some people post their opinions about what they dis/like, some do it in a more heated way than others. SImple as that.
Peace.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Catweazle
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9
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133
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 14:11
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 16:15
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 16:26
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Interesting points, DH.
The question of how well IsraTrance represents The Scene at large is interesting too. With 3300 registered users we could have a pretty large festival of IsraTrancers only. 
Of course, the opening ceremony would be a match of tug o’ war between the dark and the progressive teams, with everybody else standing around in tight little groups and throwing tomatoes – first at the two competitors, then at each other. 
Anyway, maybe it’s my noob’s naiveté or maybe it’s just my overall tolerance, but I disagree with your generalizations. There is plenty of good music of every psytrance branch (including those that “distanced themselves”). IMO, saying darkpsy or full on does not belong on the main stage just because you haven’t found a track you’d like is a bit close-minded, not to mention selfish. And what’s wrong with Suomi, anyway!?.. “Genres that distanced themselves from psytrance”… So, you think the kind of music you prefer will take us closer to the blessed root and “keep the spirit of Goa pure”? Maybe you are right. But that’s exactly the thing Gil claims too, while playing darkpsy. Ironic, isn’t it?
About opinions. They are not always just opinions. “Minimal sux” is an opinion. “Let’s ban minimal from the main stage” is a call to action. “I don’t like Jews” is an opinion protected by the First Amendment. “Let’s go set Moshe’s Deli on fire” is not just an opinion any more and will land one in jail (rightly, imho).
I am not saying anybody is going to ban Suomi just because you suggested it in your post or that somebody will ban minimal because of Syntesis’ petition. 
It’s just a bit strange to see such a framework of thought in a company as diverse and (overall) open-minded as this Forum. 
Alright, now that philosophy and politics are out of the way, here is my honest opinion on topic:
minimal sux and I hope to never hear it at any trance festival on any stage at all.
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 16:46
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
Interesting points, DH.
The question of how well IsraTrance represents The Scene at large is interesting too. With 3300 registered users we could have a pretty large festival of IsraTrancers only. |
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How many post in the threads on genre wars and generally how many post in teh threads where all the bollocking gets dropped left right and centre? The reason I am saying teh scene is not represented well enough on here, is because I see the people in the real world and they are nothing like the users on here, nor do they share this forum's taste on music. That is my epxerience, maybe yours is different and that is fair enough.
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
Anyway, maybe it�s my noob�s naiveté or maybe it�s just my overall tolerance, but I disagree with your generalizations. |
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My generalizations where tongue firmly in cheek comments. I do love old school Goa, it was my first love in 1994 (where there was not much else).
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
There is plenty of good music of every psytrance branch (including those that �distanced themselves�). IMO, saying darkpsy or full on does not belong on the main stage just because you haven�t found a track you�d like is a bit close-minded, not to mention selfish. |
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Isn't selfish and close minded to say the same for techno music then?
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
So, you think the kind of music you prefer will take us closer to the blessed root and �keep the spirit of Goa pure�? |
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It takes me closer, everybody else is not me though, I do realise that in case you're wondering
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
Maybe you are right. But that�s exactly the thing Gil claims too, while playing darkpsy. Ironic, isn�t it? |
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Having been to a few of Gill's gigs, moronic I would say 
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
I am not saying anybody is going to ban Suomi just because you suggested it in your post or that somebody will ban minimal because of Syntesis� petition.
It�s just a bit strange to see such a framework of thought in a company as diverse and (overall) open-minded as this Forum.
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Correct use of emoticon there. People in this forum need to realise that they are some of the most close-minded, elitist, selfish bunch, around.
I am not saying ban the music I don't like, you are not choosing your worlds wisely, or not reading my posts correctly. I am saying, have a differnt stage for the damn thing.
There's no way I am not going to sound like the old-know-it-all-trance-veteran when I say, I have been to an awful lot of parties over the years and there are an awful lot of people that will get very dissapointed when they hear 150+ of noise/squelchy weirdness/darkness that tries so hard to be weird/dark, it is actually cheesy as hell, especially because these people have been partying to "good 'ol psy-trance" for many many years. Now there is an awful lot of young(er) people that have missed them years of good 'ol psy-trance and will only listen to the new stuff and simply find good ol' psy-trance, boring. that is fair enough, so instead of throwing good ol' psy-trance out of the psy-trance dancefloor, make different stages for the newer styles. That is hardly a call for banning or any kind of musical fasiscm, don't you think?
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On 2010-10-14 16:26, Maine Coon wrote:
minimal sux and I hope to never hear it at any trance festival on any stage at all.
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Fair enough.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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syntesis
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3
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55
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 19:05
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I am not saying anybody is going to ban Suomi just because you suggested it in your post or that somebody will ban minimal because of Syntesis’ petition.
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I opened this topic just to see what the people think (also me), it´s true that my opinion seems to be like I hate minimal and I want to avoid the minimal in the psytrance parties, but that´s not true (despite after boom I´m still a little bit pissed, 200 euros to dance minimal  ). First of all, my vision of the world is totally relativist, and I can say "no, I don´t want minimal in psytrance main floors" but ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS we have to live the door opened to some exceptions (Aldous Huxley liked to say "always have the possibility that you are wrong"). My point is: minimal is a club music, perfect for indoor clubs, but it needs the "psy-dimension" to be played in the massive psychedelic outdoors dance floors, but... MAY BE COULD BE VERY VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS (of minimal-trance, not pure minimal at all, and in a narrow time slot at the end), but not in the way I listened it... I think still the organizers don´t have enough elegance to find this exceptions (I fear me neither )...
Dancers make the party, not Dj´s
www.soundcloud.com/ying-yang-monks |
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syntesis
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3
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55
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 19:15
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There is plenty of good music of every psytrance branch (including those that “distanced themselves”).
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Totally agree, I didn´t like dark at all during years because I just listened ugly dark (actually most of it is ugly and disturbingfull), but (again a proof of the relativism) I heard "The dark face" from barcelona (he start at 145 and finish at 160), was the first time I listened real psychedelic dark, and again my thoughs were (Ok, I don´t like dark, is very ugly, but... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS)...
Dancers make the party, not Dj´s
www.soundcloud.com/ying-yang-monks |
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Tasos_NOtrea
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
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1395
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 19:57
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
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1659
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 20:00
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On 2010-10-14 16:46, disco hooligans wrote:
The reason I am saying the scene is not represented well enough on here, is because I see the people in the real world and they are nothing like the users on here, nor do they share this forum's taste on music. That is my experience, maybe yours is different and that is fair enough.
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My experience is zero. I have a little party every day, but I am the only listener and the only DJ in it. 
On top of that, it usually lasts at most 2 hours, so I never have to worry about “breaking the flow” or “ruining the trip” (since my only drug is coffee). The only psytrance fan I ever met in person is myself.
But I do believe you, because I watch short documentaries or just random clips from parties and festivals on YouTube. And I noticed that they play far more full on than one would guess from reading this forum and usually at least 50% of the dancers are women (vs. what, 0.2% of the forum?).
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My generalizations where tongue firmly in cheek comments. I do love old school Goa, it was my first love in 1994 (where there was not much else).
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I know that.
My comment was more on the whole idea of genre wars and banning stuff. I am just not very fond of fascism in any area of life, it ticks me off every time I read something like that. I know you’re not a style fascist – didn’t mean to direct those comments against you personally.
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Isn't selfish and close minded to say the same for techno music then?
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Of course, it is!
It’s selfish and close-minded to want to ban anything at all (unless it presents an immediate danger of total world annihilation). It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about techno music or gay marriage or gun ownership. Live and let live. The more variety in the world the better.
See, there are many ways to express your opinion and it’s stretched on a line:
“I don’t care what comes out of the speakers” -> “I don’t like minimal techno” -> “I don’t want to hear minimal on the main floor” -> “I don’t want to hear it at a festival at all” -> “Let’s ban it from psy festivals” -> “Let’s amend the Constitution, so that we can shoot all minimal DJs on a spot”.
Somewhere in between complete apathy and fascist hysteria there is a point when a personal opinion becomes a call for action. That’s where I usually become very-very cautious and skeptical. And wishing everybody else did the same thing too. (yeah, I am aware of the irony here  )
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Now there is an awful lot of young(er) people that have missed them years of good 'ol psy-trance and will only listen to the new stuff and simply find good ol' psy-trance, boring. that is fair enough, so instead of throwing good ol' psy-trance out of the psy-trance dancefloor, make different stages for the newer styles. That is hardly a call for banning or any kind of musical fasiscm, don't you think?
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No, it’s not fascist at all. I am completely with you here.
P.S. Sorry about the novel.
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amigooo
Started Topics :
1
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58
Posted : Oct 14, 2010 22:27
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in my humble opinion, please let organizers take minimal to other floors or even other festival...with non further xplanation presenting my opinion: NO MINIMAL ON PSY TRANCE MAIN FLOOR PLEASE ...
thank you ever1 for exhaustive discussion...amigo
PLUR |
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Dovla
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
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748
Posted : Oct 15, 2010 00:30
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Oct 15, 2010 00:53
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thats what sux these days,it s hard to get satisfied with the music in parties as we all like different stuff |
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
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209
Posted : Oct 15, 2010 01:19
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On 2010-10-14 20:00, Maine Coon wrote:
It’s selfish and close-minded to want to ban anything at all (unless it presents an immediate danger of total world annihilation). It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about techno music or gay marriage or gun ownership. Live and let live. The more variety in the world the better.
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This does not make sense. Are you suggesting a world with no laws?
I know its a bit off topic but I am also wondering what sort of gun collection you my have? Any weapons designed specifically to kill humans? Ever shot someone before? |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
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1659
Posted : Oct 15, 2010 02:04
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On 2010-10-15 01:19, saintcarl wrote:
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On 2010-10-14 20:00, Maine Coon wrote:
It’s selfish and close-minded to want to ban anything at all (unless it presents an immediate danger of total world annihilation). It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about techno music or gay marriage or gun ownership. Live and let live. The more variety in the world the better.
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This does not make sense. Are you suggesting a world with no laws?
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No, I am not suggesting that. I am hoping for a world where people don't blow things out of proportion and don't jump at anybody whose message doesn't make sense to them.
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I know its a bit off topic but I am also wondering what sort of gun collection you my have? Any weapons designed specifically to kill humans? Ever shot someone before?
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It's not "a bit off-topic".
It's totally off-topic, against the Forum's guidelines and - most importantly - far outside the norms of polite discourse. Either you suffer from Tourette's syndrome or you forgot your manners. |
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