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directional sounds
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Nov 2, 2004 08:27
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this is the 2nd part of my quest for 3d sound 
how are sounds that are made to come from the "bottom" or the "top" made?
it sounds like it may be a combo of eq and volume, but i think there is more to it. like landing sounds or takeoff sounds that come from above...
  "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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UIU
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 2, 2004 09:28
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One way it the Doppler effect. |
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IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 2, 2004 09:59
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that true, although i never got the plugin to make anything sound good... ill try again.
also back to forth sounds and vice versa. 
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 2, 2004 10:46
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3D for me:
From top to bottom: pitch / eq (high is high)
From left to right: panning (left is left)
Depth: reverbs and delays (short reverbs are near, long reverbs are far)
The drugs do the rest  |
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UnderTow
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Posted : Nov 2, 2004 12:14
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You might be able to do something with Head Related Transfer Functions but I doubt it. You can read a bit about it here: http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmodularbook/nm_spatialization.html
Also check out Qsound plugins. They don't do vertical positioning AFAIK but they can do very interesting <-W-I-D-E-> stereo effects. You can place sounds beyond the normal stereo field so that they sound as though they come from further away (in the horizontal plane) than the speakers are. Always fun to see the dilated pupils looking for the sounds.
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
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988
Posted : Nov 2, 2004 16:08
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
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Posted : Nov 4, 2004 15:24
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i think you're talking about a filter cut off opening or closing, with enough resonance and fx to creat a "takeoff or landing" sound. with a eq you can do similar because you can sweep freq as you want, but i use mainly the synth filters. but the fx and panning is a very important part to creat a good environment. the doopler as you said is one of the choices i can use, and wha, or phaser or chorus , delay or reverb all depends how you want to be like.
Booom
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UIU
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 5, 2004 01:36
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I am just listening to Jan Michel Jarre's new album. The best tutorial on panning! I haven't heared better mastering than this. It's like you can see the sound! It will take me months to figure out how he did all these. The one I am listening to now, it's like he has automated only the reverb panning to go from left to right and placed the original sound at left. Try this. It goes from top left to bottom right (very long and big reverb). Or another trick, pann your sound to the right and reverb to the left. Or pan sound left , and use a ping pong delay so that the reverb will bounce right and left and slowly fade. |
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ZilDoggo
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663
Posted : Nov 5, 2004 18:52
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uiu.,
there are plugins for that kind of stuff.,
you could mix something in 5.1 or ambisonics or something and then rerender it for 2 speakers/headphones.,
this will give you much more 3D-ish sound than mixing in stereo.,
the actual problem with 3D sound is not so much recording or production., it's about playback,.
problem is that 3D-like spatial information is very phase sensitive and amplitude sensitive.,
so you need to make sure you have as much controll as possible at playback stage.,
that's why headphones are perfect for reproducing 3d sound, they deliver the signal directly to the ear it is ment for,.
so each ear gets only the signal intended for that ear and the signal will be on time.
1) with speakers you have the problem that each ear wil l hear the signal from BOTH speakers., this makes the effect much less strong.,
2) another thing is that if you are not sitting exactly in the middle between the speakers there will be a little phase difference between the signals arriving at one ear compared to the other,.
this will change the perception of the 3D 'soundfield'
btw,. you can use a trick to prevent problem 1) but the solution makes problem 2) even more strong.,
so you can make sure, more or less, that each ear will only hear the signal it is supposed to hear, but the result will be that you have to sit in the middle even more to hear the effect,.,
i hope this explains a bit why there is so little 3D music out there,., you would not hear the effect under 'normal' listening conditions.,
but if you are interested in such stuff, please check out google with ambisonics and binaural recordings.,.
especially binaural stuff is bloody impressive., i have never heared anything better (on headphones)., it's realy like a sound hologram., up down front behind, the illusion is almost perfect.,
there is this demo of a hair-dry thing.,
man, it's so good that my brain thought something was realy blowing in my hair at the back of my head and it tickled!!.,., hehe it fu*&^g tickled my skin .,
so the illusion is realy fantastic.,
but again, it only realy works with headphones.,
greets.,
aka., |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
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136
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1214
Posted : Nov 6, 2004 12:28
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nice explanation zildoggo !!
its good to have guys like you on the forum !! |
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Cosmos Mariner
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132
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 04:13
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Quote:
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1) with speakers you have the problem that each ear will hear the signal from BOTH speakers., this makes the effect much less strong.,
2) another thing is that if you are not sitting exactly in the middle between the speakers there will be a little phase difference between the signals arriving at one ear compared to the other,.
this will change the perception of the 3D 'soundfield'
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i was looking into this topic lately, and my understanding is that, with regards to point 1, the case is exactly the opposite: the effect is better with speakers, at least with surround speakers.
the reason is there's more to hearing directionality than just what's going in what ear. sound waves are altered a little bit as they pass over your features, head, ears, etc. this is how your brain interprets direction using only two ears. wehn you listen with headphones the sound is piped straight in, and you lose the sense of space and direction a bit. its hard to reproduce this effect as everyone's features are different!
there are actually headphones on the market (crossfeed headphones)that are lifted off of your ear a bit, so that each ear can hear a little bit. then there's another kind (in-front localization) that position the speakers a little off center to get some of that ear-bouncing effect.
check out http://headwize.com/articles/hguide_art.htm#type
zildoggo, don't know if i contradicted you here or added to your point, this stuff is so confusing! but i thought i'd add my two cents, as this is fascinating stuff
-j
sound is vibration |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 12:04
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-05 18:52, ZilDoggo wrote:
so the illusion is realy fantastic.,
but again, it only realy works with headphones.,
greets.,
aka.,
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why only inheadphones?
i dont see why you cant reproduce the same effect in a regular speacker.. i do a lot of pannings and 3d sound technics and i always listen in the monitors to check the final result and not the headphones that can change your preception. |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
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1235
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 12:10
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i think what you want to say is that the shit is the same but you can have a better preception if you use headphnes so you only listen that..
i think this is a good way if you dont have a prosoundsystem to check it so you can "fake" this kind of sound system with a headphones..
well this issue is a kind of subjective for me because there are unlimited tips and tricks for you to do whatever you want..
fot exemple the room where you're making music can change your preception of what youre earing, so your room is your natural acoustic, reverb, etc.. so you have to balance that training your ears. and then i think you ready to help yourself with what you think is better for that moment, i mean the effects and their preception..
thanks |
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eliran17
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 21:19
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there is one subject that i know about and you can test it by yourself...
what you mean -bottom- is actuly depend on the shape of the sound. i can describe it here but it will turn to be not a very helpfull explanation so my beat advice to you is to open the FLStudio insert a sample and after some basics adjusments (and creating a short loop) start tweaking , in the channel setting , with the Reverse Polarity and the others optins there. playback your loop and while hearing start tweaking the knobs and then you'll not only Hear the difrencess you'll also SEE them in the built-in screen down below.
i think it's very simple.
<One learns people through the heart, not the eyes or the intellect> |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 11, 2004 21:58
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"but if you are interested in such stuff, please check out google with ambisonics and binaural recordings.,.
especially binaural stuff is bloody impressive., i have never heared anything better (on headphones)., it's realy like a sound hologram., up down front behind, the illusion is almost perfect.,
there is this demo of a hair-dry thing.,"
do you have a link to the hair-dry thing?
I just heard the best binaural recording yesterday:
http://www.noogenesis.com/binaural/dogs.aiff.html
i think the stuff i heard in the past didnt quite match the HRTF of my own head so there was no effect. Hopefully that example matches yours, its INSANE. it almost sounds like the dog is coming up and sniffing your ear. |
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