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Designing music for the psychedelic experience
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Trevon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 4, 2011 20:46
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loooooonnnnngggg texts.... 
instead of pointless discussion, it's better to give examples of music that give you a psy experience.. point the specific sounds and combinations, then describe how you feel.
and then compare experiences with other people.. 
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Feb 4, 2011 21:00
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On 2011-02-04 20:38, Mike A wrote:
If you want to make your music better, buy better monitors, learn music theory, explore further your synths, and work work work. Don't expect to find magic frequencies and cosmic octaves, because they do not work in music.
Good luck!
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I do have two pair of monitors, i explore endlessly my synths and work a lot.
I also like to explore everything life has to offer even if it is cosmic octave mumbo jumbo... it might not be technically worthy but can be inspiring... can we move from that subject already?
BTW Trevon, discussion is not pointless at all, is giving me a lot. |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Feb 5, 2011 02:59
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edited. i wrote a very very long text as a reply but i just consider it better to delete it and leave it. there are about 100 scientific books on music theory that i consider very important to be read, but at the end of the day, they are just in front if your nose, in any library or whatsoever. you start with pythagoras and follow anything a scientist ever said about harmonics. any physician, any astrophysician, any mathematician, any musician.
i will just add that i do have respect towards people who know how much time it takes to make yourself familiar with table like this one http://www.planetware.de/download/Stimmdaten.pdf
and after all, it cannot be so much of asking, to just please let anyone do what he thinks is right. i dont want you to use the table, i just want to be able to communicate my message with the few people who might want to hear it. 100 percent useless is the most stupid thing i have heard for a long time.
and if i post my message to the end, the first one would see himself insulted, the second would see his competence threatened and the third one would tell me that he is totally indifferent while fucking me off.
a last thing to DH, may be it is the right moment to add that i do not think you or the production forum visitors are not worthy. and i am sorry that you understood this like that. ijust find it not worthy to write something which will be forgotten after 5 pages, because many big scientists wanted to tell all others that it is 100 percent useless to waste your time with such topics.
i think that i have a minority complex with many users in the production forum if this calms you down, because they definitely know much more than me about lots of things. but luckily not about all things. if i have a dream about you people, then it is to learn from each other, which is exactly what i thought the last time with opening the topic. because i am sure i know things you dont, and vice versa.
but it is obviously useless, because all the time i need to prove something, not even knowing what. for example to prove that a dog pissing three times a day and having a frequency of whatsoever is not so relevant as a planet rotating the same way every day since thousends of years as a periodic phenomena.
and btw i answered the question of this topic and only a samll part of it was about the planets. it was more about the psychedelic experience as published with exactly this name.
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Trevon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 5, 2011 03:45
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theory is very important... but music should be made with passion and following natural creativity flow.
trying to achieve these and that 'cosmic' values is just like being obssessed with a synth patch or a certain bass.. if you don't get it will get stuck and frustrated |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1614
Posted : Feb 5, 2011 04:41
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heheh, its not even funny how meaningless these disscussions get. ok, for example, the earth is rotating in its orbit at a constant rate of speed ( i dont know how much, but its constant, which does not change), and since its rotating, it is pulsing or pulsating at a certain frequency, and that freq can be called its resonant freq(ithink, can be wrong, i dont know i'm just a student). similarly, all objects in this universe has its own resonant freq,all planets, moons, galaxies,and all forms including humans( even tho they r not rotating in vaccumme constanly)( do humans even have such a resont freq? i dont know) etc etc, they have sent probes to the edges of the solar system to record these freq, and the resuls speak for themselves, this universe is very noisy, lots of pulsating things, and each at its own resonant freq. anyway, i bet u all have seen the experiment on tv or someplce, where a glass is broken using just sound, the resonant freq of that particualy glass, when transmitted breaks the glass, or some shit like that,but basically if you manage to produce a certain freq, maybe you will effect a certain object. that is if you know what freq to produce, and what is this so called cosmic octave or whatever u want to call it, i'm not saying it does not exist, i am not saying it does exist, all i'm saying is if you want to find out, only one person can tell you the answer, and that person is yourself, no one else, so, do ur research,and stop blaballing on the net all the time about something which you havent yet Felt or Seen yourself. and even if you somehow manage to see it, or experience it yourself, you cannot make anyone else feel it, or sense it, simply because, all individuals will have their own resoant freq, hence different for everyone. it has to be an individual experience in itself, it cannot be just 1 for all, because all of us r individuals, hence each has his own special freq or cosmic octave or whatever you want to call it.ceratin freq may induce certain effec, infra sounds for example, even tho we cant hear it, does not mean it dont effect us, definately the human brain is sensing it somehow, not throughthe ear, but somehow sensing or picking it up. i got sick of all the bullshit people write on this forum, they all filled with ego and talk bullshit most of the time, so all i can say is shut the fuk up, and get down to work! you'll find all the freq u'll need, in work, no other way, even if you find some magic freq, you'll only find it one way, by finding it! or searching/sensing it out at work, not blabelling on the net.and dicks who dont believe in some magic like this r dumbasses anyway but i dont blame them for seeing things this way, they talk logic, and proof, not infinite vastness, or something which cannot be realised, or put into equations or be solved, ( how big is the known universe??!!.... answer?...they dont know, as far as they can tell... infinite. the conditioned human brain cannot concieve this vastness,try and grasp this infinite space, the brain cannot even picture it, forget understanding it.).magic,unknown,whatever you want to call it, is the only way to learn, fumbling in the darkness, having some hope, that hope is magic, so stick to it, you'll find it,but not by bla bla bla, but through silent observation, so get to work. and on topic: aa i dont know, aaa, complex layering and logical progression of sound, into a meaningfull visual picture,leading a listener to something he/she hasnt ever experienced,call it mystery.magic whatever, something new, unknown,. organic fluid sounds,dripping atmospherics,clourfull leads.pads,, i dont know certain sounds also induce colour in the sensory field, leading to relation between sound notes and colour, thans what i heard someplace, i am not a scientit, i am a student. i dont know nothing. but whatever , it is awesome fun exploring all this.i never believed that exploring sound could lead me to understanding myself, and maybe a little about this universe we live in, even if i dont understand nothing its ok, it is good fun anyway,so stay kool , and get making sounds
peace
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Feb 5, 2011 06:01
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great, and now i guess it is time to move further and it is time for each of you to give another better example or alternative about how you design your sound for your own psychedelic experience. (instead of stucking on the psychedelic experience of someone else and trying to persuade him/her that it is useless ). just do it in a better way for yourself, share your workflow if you want to and otherwise just do your own thing. 
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
Posts :
8649
Posted : Feb 6, 2011 23:09
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On 2011-02-04 16:59, aciduss wrote:
Pavel, do you even make music? Glad to have the forum's clown around.
Cheers.
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Yes, I did. But than I realized I suck and quit.
 Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Feb 7, 2011 00:25
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Quote:
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On 2011-02-06 23:09, Pavel wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-02-04 16:59, aciduss wrote:
Pavel, do you even make music? Glad to have the forum's clown around.
Cheers.
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Yes, I did. But than I realized I suck and quit.
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I am soon to join you
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Feb 7, 2011 22:32
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took me 1min to get the point and i dont know german
how did they scientificaly proved that the heart chakra is green? what is the frequency of the chakra ? when did chakras became science?
actualy it is a fusion of two things religious spirituality and science = nonesense (and that is totaly subjective)
those "sceintists"
all that they did is to take scientific formulas and put their values inside, they found nothing new! it is only a theory from the new age world...
now about designing music for psychedelic experience i don't think there is such a thing everybody and his own trip ...
some like hardcore noise and some like ambient and some like gay club music it is subjective to each individual as the thing that works here is the brain not the ear. that little processor that seperates your playlist to cool and not cool.
that question has no answer.
there is only a psychedelic experience the disign is inside your brain.
 http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Feb 7, 2011 23:48
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Aciduss .. Tell you the truth i dont realy care about those psychedelic experience , I dont think of it ..
Maybe its somthing that 'Coming with' This is not somthing that im looking for under the ground .
To your other question .. Today .. After 12 years on cubase i dont realy triping anymore , I cant .. Not into my music and not to otheres track , Ill tell you more .. I start playing drums for 7 years at 11 years old And piano 2 and a half years when i was 7 So all this talk about this psy ex' or those , This is somthing i had at 16 , 17 , 18 And today when im 42 i dont realy know how its feel by now , Heard or even look . This is all far away behind me by now and this is good .. Thats show me the things more clean and clearly when i produce , I let the other get inside my psy and dark worlds and feel those influence and effect .. This much much better then being in there 24 hours a day .
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Feb 8, 2011 03:25
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[quote]
On 2011-02-07 22:32, daark wrote:
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there is only a psychedelic experience the disign is inside your brain.
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agreed ,
We always want to overcomplicate things.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Feb 8, 2011 17:22
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those "sceintists"
all that they did is to take scientific formulas and put their values inside, they found nothing new! |
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agree.
it is just mathematics. nobody finds anything new with mathematics that has not been there before. mathematicians just find patterns in nature and establish truth from appropriate axioms (which are self evident propositions and dont need to be proved because they are obvious, which is the case with the frequency of regular periodic phenomenon such as the daily rotation of the earth).
mathematicians establish equations and logical models that fit appropriately to reality and can be used either for further understanding of our surroundings or by other scientific or artistic fields. for example the pythagorean theorem is not used only to complicate the world and fit it into useless complexity, but also directly in "acoustics, architecture, astronomy , navigation, on the oceans, in aircraft, and in space, biology, cartography, chemistry, computer graphics, geophysics, crystallography, economics (in particular in analysis of financial markets), electrical engineering, electronics, land surveying and geodesy, many physical sciences, mechanical engineering, machining, medical imaging (CAT scans and ultrasound), meteorology, music theory" (quote for usage of trigonometry) .
the cosmic octave is just a model. it definitely needs a musical education to understand the intervals and is not a field of a new age theory. very few esoteric experts will understand what this intervalls are exactly and where do the numbers come from. only mathematician-musicians do. new age is just one of those fields that can use it. but you can surely use it in many other scietific fields as well.
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
454
Posted : Feb 11, 2011 13:20
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well if it´s all down to maths why are not all mathematicians gifted musicians?
Reducing music to numbers is a convenient way of taking apart a piece and analyzing it. In the creation part of things it makes more sense to trust human intuition above all else. Just because we are not all adhering to the mystical power of some impractical tuning system does not explicitly make all music created after that fact not have an effect. Whatever effect music has on us is to a large part something we create in our heads with the help of our cultural upbringing (which means more than most admit) Additionally i might add that it´s fully possible to reach whatever frequency you want using any modern way of synthesizing sound. It´s just that so much truly psychedelic music has been created using normal tuning schemes that i find it hard to believe another system would yield better results.
I dare say access to ample amounts of acid has taken music to another level, esoteric mumbo jumbo? not so much.
In the end talking things to death and over analyzing things to bits is a super safe way compared to say getting ones hands dirty and actually creating stuff that just works.
The beauty of math in music is that it can be inherently understood by people without them understanding how things actually work. You can be a musician and have flunked math, in fact quite a lot of gifted musicians in our time did not spend much time in school learning maths to become better at their craft. In other fields like physics math is way more explicit for obvious reasons, but music can be expressed intuitively AND/OR mathematically. I know which one i choose.
Oh and if i am not mistaken the rotation speed of the earth is not constant as such. We are in fact slowing down Newtonian physics seem to have gotten by with simple approximations like that, but for a detailed picture we need more precise observations.
Now go tweak some knobs!
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Feb 11, 2011 13:26
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On 2011-02-11 13:20, monno wrote:
The beauty of math in music is that it can be inherently understood by people without them understanding how things actually work. You can be a musician and have flunked math, in fact quite a lot of gifted musicians in our time did not spend much time in school learning maths to become better at their craft. In other fields like physics math is way more explicit for obvious reasons, but music can be expressed intuitively AND/OR mathematically. I know which one i choose.
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I was like this until I went to Uni and studied physics maths, analog and digital electronics. When I understood how things work in side the core, I was even more amazed at the same sounds I was less amazed before. Building my first analog FM synth in the lab on two PCBs using Intesil based VCO chips, and then using screwdrivers to record sounds to put in my then breakbeat tunes, was a day I will always remember and cherish 
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Sanathana
Sanathana
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
410
Posted : Feb 13, 2011 16:24
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