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Dear Artist, how many copies of your album were sold?
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Nik
Error Corrective
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Posted : Jul 31, 2007 18:27
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SOME INTERESTING FACTS AND FIGURES-
http://www.themusic.com.au/im_m/display.php?s=phil&id=175
"In 2000, U.S. consumers bought 785.1 million albums; last year, they bought 588.2 million (a figure that includes both CDs and downloaded albums), according to Nielsen SoundScan.
In 2000, the ten top-selling albums in the U.S. sold a combined 60 million copies; in 2006, the top ten sold just 25 million.
The U.S. music industry issued 75,774 album titles in 2006, or 15,000 more than the 60,331 albums that came out in 2005. Major labels-counting physical and digital titles-issued 11,230 new albums in 2006, which was only slightly more than the 11,070 issued in 2005.
New releases were up 25.6% last year compared with 2005, with most of that figure coming from digital-only album releases. Last year, digital-only album releases jumped to 24,720 from the 16,580 released in 2005,
But despite that jump, new-release sales dropped 9.4% last year to 220.3 million from the 243.1 million units scanned in the prior year. That decline in sales is nearly double the overall album market's 5% drop between the two years.
Independent digital-only releases exploded last year, with 21,763 titles being issued, versus the 13,645 issued in the prior year. On the other hand, major label digital-only releases held steady, with 2,957 released in 2006 versus the 2,935 in 2005. Whether from a major or independent, digital-only new-album releases still remain microscopic, accounting for 1.22 million units in sales, or 0.6% of all sales generated by new releases.
Looking at physical only, last year the independent sector issued 42,781 titles-up 20% from the 35,616 titles issued in 2005. But these only sold 51.1 million units as opposed to 2005's 57.2 million units of one million + sellers.
In 2006 only 33 albums hit 1 million sales. Up one from 2005
In 2006, 364 albums sold 100,000 units or more same as 2005.
In 2006 only 1000 new albums sold more than 5000 copies. Only 5000 titles sold more than 1000 copies.
In 2006 55,516, or 73.3% of all new releases last year, failed to sell even 100 units. Of these, 4,364 came from the majors, and a whopping 51,152 from indies.
Excluding those titles that sold less than 100 units each, major-label new releases last year averaged sales of 26,895 units per title, while independent titles averaged 2,603 units.
R&B recorded the biggest percentage drop according to Nielsen SoundScan. The genre is down 22.4% on the same period last year. Rap has dropped 15.8% and Alternative is down 14.9%. On the upside, Country music sales have increased 17.7% so far in 2006 while Christian sales are up 11.6%, Classical is up 7.9% and Latin is up 7.8%.
Digital sales are growing-fans bought 582 million digital singles last year, up sixty-five percent from 2005,
The touring business is thriving over $500 million in the US last year.
More than $600 million in ringtones, ringbacks and other mobile music content sold in the US last year. In Australia, we're looking at$ 40 million.
But it's not just about unit sales.
More than 5,000 record-company employees have been laid off since 2000.
About 2,700 record stores have closed across the US since 2003, according to the research group Almighty Institute of Music Retail. Last year the eighty-nine-store Tower Records chain, which represented 2.5 percent of overall retail sales, went out of business, and Musicland, which operated more than 800 stores under the Sam Goody brand, among others, filed for bankruptcy.
Around sixty-five percent of all music sales now take place in big-box stores such as Wal-Mart and Best Buy, which carry fewer titles than specialty stores and put less effort behind promoting new artists. According to NPD Group research, Apple's iTunes is now the third largest music retailer in the country among all digital or physical outlets. Based on Q1 figures, Wal-Mart remains the biggest single music retailer with 15.8% of the market, Best Buy second at 13.8% and iTunes third at 9.8%. Overall, digital a la carte music sales now make up almost 14% of all music sales. That does not include other digital revenues such as subscription services or ad-supported services.
Consumers bought more than 100 million iPods since 2001. They represent about 75% of the digital player market.
Since 2003, the RIAA have sued more than 20,000 music fans yet file sharing has risen.
There was a 4.4 percent increase in the number of peer-to-peer users in 2006, with about a billion tracks downloaded illegally per month. Nearly half of all Americans -- 45 percent-downloaded music from pay sites or peer to peer sources, up from 31 percent. And those who paid for a song increased dramatically-from 8 percent in 2005 to 23 percent in 2006.
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karmakanik
IsraTrance Junior Member
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658
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 00:01
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@full on
this is a great topic, i remember asking a similar question on the psynews forum some years ago...
however i think you have addressed the topic to the wrong people... it is the labels who know the exact sales numbers for the albums they release, most artists are dependent upon the labels for exactly this type of information.
unfortunately there are many incentives for labels to distort, fabricate, or obscure their actual sales numbers, the least of which being their financial obligations to their artists. (and if you think our scene is immune from this, just check the djs/artists section on this very forum...).
and although this is pure speculation, i imagine many labels are loathe to publicize their numbers because they are embarrassed about their lack of sales. however, like detox said above, i think if more labels were to do so (and i'm talking about actual numbers here, not just "we don't sell many copies, less than 1000" - duh) it might discourage more people from starting up "bedroom" labels. which i guess is a good thing if you're another label head  |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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5380
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 07:42
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
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117
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 11:00
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-31 14:36, DETOX wrote:
COLLIN many labels sell double than 1000 units,i mean if my label sold 1800-2000 copies from its compilations w
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Yeah...right
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 14:23
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Justin what exactly do you find strange in my statement above?
The fact that many labels sell double than 1000 units or the fact that my label sold 1800-2000 copies of its compilations?
I suspect you are reffering to the sales of my label so keep in mind the following (apart the fact that i got no reason to lie concerning the number of my sales,actually i got a reason to lie but then i would state a much lower number of sold cds and not a high one).
a)My label is releasing very well known and highly demanded and respected artists in its compilations,names like Deedrah,Astrix,Dino Psaras,Logic Bomb,Orion,Wizzy Noise,Space Cat,Bamboo Forest,Silicon Sound and Jaia,Electric Universe,Talamasca,Protoculture and many more.These artists sell quiet a lot,actually these are the artists that sell well in our days and if you ask me a compilation full with these names (like Digital Performers for example) should sell much more than 2000 copies which were the actual sales.
b)Until some time ago there were more sales points for labels,there was Chaos Unlimited that bought a respected number of cds from my label,there was Trance Shop and Cosmophillia in Germany and many small record stores in Europe and especially Scandinavia that bought cds.
c)I was working with an independent distributor meaning that my distribution was selling to everyone on the market unlike today where a distributor X sells to internet shop Y but it doesnt sell to internet shop Z due to the deal they have between them.Me i was selling everywhere and on the same time although some shops asked me to not sell to their competitors but i just ignored them and since my cds were in high demand everyone was buying from me and noone was willing to just ignore me and not feature my products in their catalog because they knew that this would mean more sales for their competitors.The shops today are willing to boycot some smaller labels but not a label with big names in its catalog.
d)I had a superb distribution in Japan working with Cisco and Wakyo that bought almost half my cds because the Japanese people love the big names and my cds were selling very good there,not to mention the Wizzy Noise guys that are very famous there and their albums sold more than 1300 copies just in Japan.
This is more or less how i managed to sell 1800-2000 copies from my compilations and around 2500 copies from the Wizzy Noise albums.
Still though do you think that 2000 copies is a big number for a cd with all these big names?
Trust me it doesnt worth to spend all this energy and money for such sales and this is why my label is resting at the moment while i watch whats going on in the market.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 14:35
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No Mike, I wasn't doubting your numbers...I have no reason to do so.
What I find difficult to believe is to state that many did so.(Sell more than 2/3000)
Appart from Solstice, Twisted, Hommega, Nano, Alchemy, Iboga and Neurobiotic, all labels (7) with more than 5 years and already a reputation and public.
And yours, for the reasons you stated above, I seriously doubt any others sold more than 2/3000 at most.
Which is already a very low number
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 14:55
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Apart from Twisted,Hommega,Solstice,Alchemy,Nano,Iboga and Neurobiotic some other labels are selling very good for their own reasons each one.
Spun Records and TIP World must sell more than 2000 copies for obvious reasons.
BNE has an amazing promotion and distribution system and sells very very good from what i know.
Vision Quest also the same and i guess Phonokol.
Chemical Crew i guess has its own hardcore fans and must also sell more than 2000 copies.
Also i am preety sure that the releases from Digital Structure sell very good,i mean Son Kite,Ticon and Vibrasphere are amazing artists plus Atmos is in the house too from now and on.
Thats 14 labels so far and if you include mine then i guess we are 15 LOL
Anyway the sales and the market are shit anyway.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 15:00
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-01 14:55, DETOX wrote:
Anyway the sales and the market are shit anyway.
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Exactly
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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karmakanik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
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658
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:50
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-01 07:42, Colin OOOD wrote:
I think your speculation is correct in many cases. But even the labels are at the mercy of their distribution for this information. How many labels have an accounts-scrutiny clause in their contracts with their distributors - and acutally use it?
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excellent point Colin. unfortunately it's just another step in the "trance food chain" where those at the top have an incentive to deceive those below them. |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 22:44
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Well... I donīt have the right numbers from our cdīs. But I can honestly say that itīs very hard to make nice cdīs, and make money with this.
Just for a example: for a nice compilation with 10 artists(that got paid), with professional artwork and prime paper and ink(something that I donīt see in trance so much) u need to sell something like 600-700 copies. Knowing that labels prints somehitng about 2000 copies, even if u sold out the cdīs, your profit is ridiculous imho.
Maybe my post will change the direction of the thread, but I would like to show my point of view: how can a label lower the cd cost??? Imho the best way is stop paying the artists... As artist, I would prefer having a "looking good" cd than receive some money(little money to be true, less than one gig). But for sure I would never give my tracks away for every label. Artists and label should understand why they are working together... I would not mind giving my tracks(even a whole album) to the labels I work for, if they provide good marketing and a nice cd. For what Iīve seen here, thereīre no good marketing nor good cdīs. I donīt know why labels continues to promise money for tracks, if they know that labels canīt make money with sales(talking about all this "X label didnīt pay my music")...
LOADING... |
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v.v2
Started Topics :
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83
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 22:45
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-31 14:36, DETOX wrote:
In any case these numbers are not able to keep a serious label running because 2000 or even 2500 copies per release is a very small number for a label that works legally and pays all its artists, operating expenses and partners. Most labels are still operating for two reasons a) to get money from booking their artists and/or, b) promote the label owners and secure them gigs and promote their side activities like parties and festivals organisations.
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That's a fairly discussion-ending answer. You should advise upcoming labels to have a similar model to survive in this market.
Here the maximum difference is between 3,000 and 500, which is actually nothing, but judge that against the money a label rakes in from parties and bookings and you see the real picture. A good means to assess a little-known label's success/potential therefore is how well networked it is in the party circuit.
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 2, 2007 00:38
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Happy to see you got the point dear V.V2 unfortunately though not every label manager is able to get all these connections and keep his label running based on his side activities (artists bookings,parties and festivals organisations,etc etc).
You see in our days even the major festivals are booking 4-5 major names that get payed to attract the people and the majority of the rest of the line up plays for free and even some people pay for their own air tickets to be part of the line up of a festival.And before some people think that this happens only in small festivals i advise you to think again because the major festivals of our scene today in countries like Portugal and Germany for example (wont mention names for obvious reasons and because after all noone obliges an artist to pay for free) have filled their line ups with artists that either play for free or just their a small ammount of money (as low as 200-300 euros) plus their travel expenses.
There are so many labels and artists and djs in such a small scene like the psy trance scene (where everyone is part of something or at least thinks that is part of something) that the competition has obliged people to lower their standards to the really basics in order to gain some exposure.
By the way dear SMS your thinking of mutual understanding between labels and artists is a very wise and correct one and the idea of giving away a track for free in order to be part of a good release and part of the familly of a nice label is a very good concept but unfortunately established and well known artists who are part of this music scene for many years dont much need and will never accept such a thing.
While your project SMS will "donate" a track in order to be part of a nice compilation for example GMS will never do that i guess because they dont need it and for many other reasons.
And unfortunately or not its GMS that sells in our days and not SMS.
I will again say something that i have said many times in the past to give you an idea of the trance market today.
The fastest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and open a trance label.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 2, 2007 02:22
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Actually, my whole idea is only by Label side... I mean, I canīt understand how a label can profit selling 2000-3000 copies, and paying 1000 euros each track(I donīt really know the price of tracks, but if lousy labels offers u something like 500, GMS should ask a lot more)... AS an artist I would always like to have some money for my music!
All compilations that I worked for(High End Records) paied all the artists something about U$600. For sure this money did not save artists ass*s, but imho could save label from bankrupt(in our case, the label didinīt bankrupt, but....). As your label Detox, High End is resting to see what will happen, cause we canīt afford so much loses... Even for a millionaire(maybe thatīs the problem.... the owner is not a billionaire wanting to become a millionaire).
And your statement quoted above is indeed into the fact! Knowing that, the small labels and artists should work together to try to reach the level of big labels(wich can profit from gigs, parties, advertisment, etc). And thatīs what Iīve never seen. Every complain about "no paying from X labels" come from small ones...
Bottom line: for sucessfull artists and label, the way itīs working is actually working(sorry for this..lol). BUT, for all the rest of the scene, we should think about a way to continue releasing music, without so much shit bussiness like nowadays(past days also).
LOADING... |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 2, 2007 13:58
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As an artist dear SMS you DESERVE to get not only some money but some respectable money for your work,when a label wants to sign a track then this means that the label likes the track and is willing to pay for it because it awaits for it to bring more sales into the compilation and satisfy the music taste of the people who support the label.
Sometimes ofcourse an artist might want to give a track away for free in order to be part of a nice concept compilation or just to manage to release something on his favorite label.For example if i was a new artist and Twisted Records asked me to release my music for free then i would have no hesitation to give it away for free because releasing at Twisted would give me much more exposure and respect than money can buy.Also i would happilly give away one of my tracks if a friend of mine operated a new label and i wanted to help him in the beggining or if someone would compile a charity cd where all profits will go to the less fortunate of this world.
All the above situations are fine but giving away a track for free in a copy paste neo full on israeli label just because noone else is willing to release my music and pay for it then this action not only brings back nothing to the artist but even destroys the scene by helping bad labels to survive and even make money out of this sick situation because they give them a reason to release even more cds in the future stealing a small percentage of the market from labels that are working professionaly and really need those sales.
No label that is delivering a good product out there can survive on 2000 copies per release.Just printing 2000 copies will cost a label 2000 euros plus graphics design and a good mastering this goes up to 2600 euros easily.And if just half the artists featured on the compilation (lets say 5 out of 10) are registered to music rights companies like Acum or Sagem then for two thousand copies you need another 1000 euros in order to print your cd and receive it from the factory.Without paying any taxes and artists you need 3600 euros just for manufacturing expenses.
If you sign 10 tracks for 500 euros each then automatically you got another 5000 euros expense plus the 3600 euros manufacturing we are already on 8600 euros.And keep in mind that first class names will no way settle for less than 700-800 euros and the few super duper names that we got in our scene will ask you 1000 euros for a track.
So we are already on 8600 euros with no promotion at all,operating a website,sending away 60-70 promos and buying half a page on two music magazines and a small banner on psyshop or saikosounds then you can easily reach up the magic number 10.000 euros for a serious release that can stand out in the market and sell quiet good.
What quiet good means in our days?
1500-1700 copies maximum with a good distribution and someone promoting the label every day for at least the first 2-3 months of the release all around the physical and internet world.
10.000 euros for the production of a music cd in the real music world is absolutely nothing,some music labels pay these money just for mastering their releases or even to have their graphics design made up from a well known artist or to buy a promotion page on a known magazine.
In the tiny psy trance world though where a distributor buys 6 euros maximum a cd from the label and comes back with a statement of 1700 copies sold maximum this means that the label just breaks even after a sales period of one year.
What exactly is the point of releasing a cd and expecting just to get your money back after a year?
If you are a dj or an artist and want to promote yourself then there is a point yes but for people like me who are no artists or no dj's (even though funny enough i got more dj offers to play on big festivals than people who are actually dj'ing but thats another story) then there is no point in being involved in the psy trance market.
I am speaking with some very well respected labels who are informing me that the market is so bad that they just keep running their labels in order to make money from the bookings.
Every year things get even worst and if you ask me its a matter of very short time before everything collapses and the only labels that will survive are the very small ones that are happy releasing their label owners and friends music and satisfied with 400-500 sold copies which covers their manufacturing expenses.
Ofcourse when one or two from the major distributions collapse first (like it has happened many times in the past) then even these small labels will dissapear over a night....
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Aug 2, 2007 16:19
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yup ..fuking dumb business idea .. why on earth would anyone want to invest their money on it ..
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