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Dear Artist, how many copies of your album were sold?
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 07:44
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spindrift you are not getting what I say and with a lot what you say you actually back up what I say without noticing it. the first three paragraphs (one more time) are written as they would "oppose" anything I said but acutally are exactly what I say. you just don't understand what I say.
just about the "product I'm making which nobody is wanting" see there you are wrong. I don't even want to "live from my fans" all I'd like is that all the people who actually download my music and leave comments in my guestbook on how wonderful they think my music is for them or how great my last gig was etc. if just they would also buy a cd now and then so that the masterings could be payed. it would be enough. I'm greatful for the wonderful feedback I get, really, and you might think my product is not good enough, but the reality is in every business that people less and less appreciate what they get, more and more "free" and "cheap" has to be the way and people do only realize what "quality" is when all the small shops are gone. You can have an as good product as you like, if there is a megastore beside who sells the cheap shit better youre gonna lose.
I don't know if you have ever been close to distributions and labels and really actually KNOW what you are talking about when it comes down to sales and numbers, but you certainly sound more like somebody who just made up his mind about things which he didn't really experience.
  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 08:33
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If you talk to labels, shops and distributions today they usually tell you the same thing and this totally backs everything up which I said.
They say that earlier there were more cds sold and that the "cd/per person" rate was higher. This enabled labels, shops and distributions to take more risk and invest, order, promote also more special releases. Some of them failed, some succeeded, more special stuff had a chance. Today they struggle to get enough sales and can't take anymore risks. They concentrate on what sells for sure and thats of course the mainstream.
For the artists that means, if they want support they need to fit in the mainstream, whereas earlier, when more cds were sold, they had more chances for support even when they were special.
Therefore, people buying less CDs, CAUSE the COMMERCIAL market to become less diverse. Because all investors can take less risks for nonmainstream stuff. there is less "fall out" for experiments.
Sure the special stuff can be released for "free" but "free" doesn't pay internettraffic bills nor mastering costs. And definitly not any costs for equipment or software or LIFE (which I do not expect anyways).
I don't see why anybody should oppose on me saying People having less gratitude for things. You can see it everywhere. Look at party organizers, they have the same trouble. you can throw the people an incredible party with pretty much everything they ask for and so many people will still say it is too expensive. they have no idea what it costs to organize events or produce music and in the end always believe they could pay less for it. and that what they do, they climb over the fence, download the cds or whatever they can. And in the end it will kill the diversity and what survives is only the mainstream whichs manages to sustain itself because of the masses.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 11:54
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On 2009-05-19 07:44, subconsciousmind wrote:
spindrift you are not getting what I say and with a lot what you say you actually back up what I say without noticing it. the first three paragraphs (one more time) are written as they would "oppose" anything I said but acutally are exactly what I say. you just don't understand what I say.
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Yes, we both agree that people make more mainstream music in order to sell more.
The difference is that you seem to claim that the reason people do that is that sales are too low.
I can't see that that's a correct conclusion looking at reality of neither this scene or the music industry in general.
It's just an idea in some artists and labels imagination that more commercialism will set music free from commercial pressure.
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On 2009-05-19 07:44, subconsciousmind wrote:
just about the "product I'm making which nobody is wanting" see there you are wrong.
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You just have to look at the sales figures for psytrance in general and you will notice that you are living under an illusion.
Despite the fact that CD's are a very old technology by now well on the end of it's lifespan, and that customers have not been given a reasonable alternative, CD's still sell. Sure sales are decreasing somewhat, but you are not selling 100 times less than what you be needed for your music to be commercially viable because people like things to be cheap and free, but simply because your product is not commercially viable in the first place.
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On 2009-05-19 07:44, subconsciousmind wrote:
I don't know if you have ever been close to distributions and labels and really actually KNOW what you are talking about when it comes down to sales and numbers, but you certainly sound more like somebody who just made up his mind about things which he didn't really experience.
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I have been involved with running labels, and have experience not only from the psytrance industry. I do know how much a distributor pays the label per copy, and how much of that will be passed on to the artist.
With the contracts I have seen, which range from small labels run by freaks to large and serious labels, they stipulate something in the range of 16-18% of price to distributor for the artist. The distributor usually pays some €7-10 per CD.
So the artists will normally get somewhere around €1.50 per CD.
Let's assume a scenario where they get €2 per CD, even if that is a very optimistic figure.
You sell 6000 CD's you get €12000...that would mean that 2-3 albums per year selling 6000 copies would make you as a solo artist something that is close to a regular wage.
Of course that is a lot of pressure to produce that much music, and like I mentioned you would over-saturate the market, so you really need to sell more copies to not be under constant pressure.
Let's say you sell 20000 copies and release one album a year....€40000 seem like a comfortable yearly wage in Switzerland I guess?
In reality you have to take in to account that you are in effect a freelance, which means that you need a buffer. It's the same as for me when working with programming...I just can't work for the same rate as someone with a steady income since I just don't know if I have any income next month. Also I have no employer paying pension money, health insurance, vacation, e.t.c.
Maybe you get sick, loose inspiration for a while or have a release being delayed.
So that €40000/year is in reality not that great wage and in practice rather a quite mediocre wage compared to what the average worker earns in the western world.
And how many artists do you know that releases an album a year for many years in a row while maintaining a high standard?
If we are not using as optimistic figures and don't want to be under constant pressure to create a lot of music that is good enough to sell in high volume, having to sell close to 60000 copies of each album as a solo artist is really not that much of an exaggeration.
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On 2009-05-19 07:44, subconsciousmind wrote:
If you talk to labels, shops and distributions today they usually tell you the same thing and this totally backs everything up which I said.
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Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that they also love to blame downloading rather than analysing the commercial viability of their product or even doing something as simple as looking how the rest of the music industry is doing and make parallels to their own business.
Fact is that they are using an outdated business model selling an outdated product, so I can understand that they like to winch about the situation.
And I can understand that they like to look at the scene in terms of CD sales, but if we ignore the labels for a second there is an endless number of artists creating music, more than ever before...they are just not all releasing on CD.
According to my taste I find more interesting music on for example Basilisks site than I find on saikosounds.
And again you are assuming that labels and distributors would settle down an experiment more if just sales where a bit higher, which is a totally false assumption. There is no evidence of that in any genre of music...people just don't settle down for a mediocre income and when there is money to be made they want to make as much as possible, even if they are trying to tell them self otherwise before they reach that point.
If psytrance would become a lot more popular to a level where it becomes a commercially viable product you would quickly have the bedroom freak labels replaced by suits from major labels, and they are certainly not more interested in experimenting.
We don't live in a little bubble separated from the rest of reality, and reality is a capitalistic market. It doesn't take a genius to look at what that market does to music it finds having a potential.
So I'm afraid that how the world looks today it's only in la-la land where more sales leads to more artistic expression and more diversity.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
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Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 12:03
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And again you are assuming that labels and distributors would settle down an experiment more if just sales where a bit higher, which is a totally false assumption. There is no evidence of that in any genre of music...people just don't settle down for a mediocre income and when there is money to be made they want to make as much as possible, even if they are trying to tell them self otherwise before they reach that point.
If psytrance would become a lot more popular to a level where it becomes a commercially viable product you would quickly have the bedroom freak labels replaced by suits from major labels, and they are certainly not more interested in experimenting.
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(I don't see what you vague calculations have to do what I say, they don't interest me at all and are totally out of place.)
we have statement against statement here. I know from labels who stopped with the special stuff or stopped at all because of low sales. And distributions, shops clearly refuse to support nonmainstream much more now then they did 5 years ago. So your assumption in my opinion is clearly wrong.
I don't know in what reality you live, but here the market responds to demand. if customers demand the market delivers.
If we want diversity the only thing we can do is demand for it by buying it and thats up to the consumers. If consumers do not show interest in diversity it will not be in the market. Everything that is being sold is being sold upon demand from consumers, so also diversity is. Customers in the music industry go out of the "demand circle" by pirating. Therfore the musicindustry needs to react to the demands which are still obvious, the big demands, the mainstream.
if people stop buying they stop demanding. they assumably stop buying equaly mainstream and "sidestream" releases by pirating. The mainstream can take the lower sales, but not the "sidestream" so what survives eventually is the fittest, which is the mainstream, lower sales in usually kill the small fishes first and therfore kill diversity.
Also major labels like sony etc. officially stated that they mainly cut back on the small artists and focus on the mainstream. I really don't see how you come to your assumptions.
You say people who don't sell should rather analyse their product, thats often true but very often that isn't true. And there you are very ignorant.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 12:43
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forgot to say: You numbers are out of place for me, because I think we all should make the music out of joy and live from something else and because sales also lead to bookings which usually make the income. I also like the music on Basilisks page. But as long as people don't spend money on music (either for cds or anything) basilisk will pay for the joy of the customers and masterings have to be payed by the artists themselves.
I would only wish and expect the listeners to have a bit more awareness of what investments are needed to master, internet release, and maybe even advert or print a cd and I would love to see them just spend a bit more so that at least those humble costs could be settled. But not even that is possible and thats what I call lack of gratitude.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
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Posts :
1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 12:47
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I don't know what shops you are looking in, but there is certainly a lot more choice in music today. There are a lot more releases than there where 5 years ago, and the market was hardly filled with experimental music 5 years ago.
I understand that labels want to make claims like that because they like to think that they fill an important function in the scene, but you have to analyse if there is any truth in what they say. I certainly do not see that there used to be more diversity in the music available.
Sure Sony is cutting back and focusing on what is clearly profitable, but the fact is that if you look at the music industry in general you have more releases and more labels than ever, so the music is obviously still released.
And yes, the market does respond to demand, but you are assuming that the lack of demand is because people download instead of buying CD's.
If you look at figures for global CD sales they where peaking around year 2000 and since then they have decreased somewhere around 20%.
If you compare that with the sales for cassette or vinyl that is expected since CD's as a medium have reached the end of it's lifespan.
And digital sales as well as royalties from public performance have increased, somewhat making up for that loss.
So I'm afraid it's hard to use file-sharing as an argument as for why psytrance is performing so extremly bad...does it really matter that much if you sell 600 or 720 copies of you album?
Even with 720 copies you be glad to not loose money on your release, so it still doesn't make sense as a commercial product and you still would be just as well off offering your music for free.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 12:57
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On 2009-05-19 12:43, subconsciousmind wrote:
I would only wish and expect the listeners to have a bit more awareness of what investments are needed to master, internet release, and maybe even advert or print a cd and I would love to see them just spend a bit more so that at least those humble costs could be settled. But not even that is possible and thats what I call lack of gratitude.
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Why would I like to pay for advertising and printing and distribution of a media that is useless to me?
And distribution on the internet is free....if you do it yourself there is a very modest cost, but if you think that is to much p2p networks will not charge you a penny for distributing your music.
I would certainly start buying more music if there where a shop selling FLAC downloads at a reasonable price, but obviously the labels does not show the fans enough respect to provide that, and instead they complain about my lack of support.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 13:18
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On 2009-05-19 12:57, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2009-05-19 12:43, subconsciousmind wrote:
I would only wish and expect the listeners to have a bit more awareness of what investments are needed to master, internet release, and maybe even advert or print a cd and I would love to see them just spend a bit more so that at least those humble costs could be settled. But not even that is possible and thats what I call lack of gratitude.
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Why would I like to pay for advertising and printing and distribution of a media that is useless to me?
And distribution on the internet is free....if you do it yourself there is a very modest cost, but if you think that is to much p2p networks will not charge you a penny for distributing your music.
I would certainly start buying more music if there where a shop selling FLAC downloads at a reasonable price, but obviously the labels does not show the fans enough respect to provide that, and instead they complain about my lack of support.
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I pay 150 Euro per year for my webservices plus traffic. For each track I pay 60 Euro for mastering (which I find worth it). I can't settle this cost with the income from donations, payed downloads via itunes/amazone (beatport doesn't take small labels) and cd sales.
I gave my CDs to P2P networks but if nobody knows it, nobody downloads it. so if you want your music to get to people you need to advertise a little at least. which costs again or at least burns your nerves because you have to "spam" myspace or whatever manually.
Bottom line is: No money for music, its impossible if not some idealistic persons like me, you or basilisk pay the bills from their own money.
Demanding Flac or Wav over 320kbps is maybe your thing but the majority of people is obviously even happy enough with 192kbps mp3s. the wouldn't buy more if there was more lossless, they don't buy because they don't have to.
If sales of cds go back 20% in total it affects the small fish much worse then the big ones because they have less headroom, so your calculations don't work out that way.
As for the higher diversity, more cds doesn't mean more diversity. I don't see more diversity today then in 2000. I only see more cds with similar music.
All of a sudden pirating music is possible and sales go back 20% and you say you can't blame it on that??? Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 14:03
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
I pay 150 Euro per year for my webservices plus traffic. For each track I pay 60 Euro for mastering (which I find worth it). I can't settle this cost with the income from donations, payed downloads via itunes/amazone (beatport doesn't take small labels) and cd sales.
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For €150/year it's really no problem to find a good host that give you very large amounts of traffic included, so that is a very modest cost IMO.
And for myself I would have a hosting accounts anyway, not only for my music, and they have a much higher bandwidth allowance than I need so hosting the music doesn't cost me a penny extra.
If you have no other need for hosting than to make your music available there are plenty of people who have a lot of spare space and bandwidth willing to offer it for free.
If money for hosting is an issue for someone I'd be happy to help them out with space and bandwidth, or you can use free services like soundcloud.
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
I gave my CDs to P2P networks but if nobody knows it, nobody downloads it. so if you want your music to get to people you need to advertise a little at least. which costs again or at least burns your nerves because you have to "spam" myspace or whatever manually. |
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I agree that promoting is either tedious or costly, and I really suck at it myself.
If you already have a known name, p2p networks does work in spreading your music, but otherwise the downloads will be marginal.
But I think it will be hard to make fans see that they should pay for advertising, and there are many channels where you can promote for free...it's up to you if you think it's worth the effort.
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
Bottom line is: No money for music, its impossible if not some idealistic persons like me, you or basilisk pay the bills from their own money. |
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Luckily we are hardly alone, and you don't have to be a idealistic hippie to have a hobby which cost a little bit of money.
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
Demanding Flac or Wav over 320kbps is maybe your thing but the majority of people is obviously even happy enough with 192kbps mp3s. the wouldn't buy more if there was more lossless, they don't buy because they don't have to.
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At least on resonantearth, most people that do buy get FLAC, so I think that assumption might be false.
And also with mp3's the prices are usually way to high. Paying almost the same for a track as an mp3 download as when buying it on CD is a joke, and until the increased cost efficiency of digital distribution is reflected in the price digital sales will continue to be abysmal.
I hope you don't mind if I answer your question you PM'ed me here, since I have no problem answering that in public:
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subconsciousmind wrote:
I think that your resonant earth is a heartfelt project exactly after my taste, but I wonder if you manage to settle the cost.
Furthermore I wonder how many sales you have after all and if you think that the artist get their deserved recognition and spread. |
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The costs is close to 0. I need to have a hosting account anyway, and nowadays the bandwidth that the site generates is no problem even for hosting that cost less than €10/month.
It is quite a bit of work though, and you might have noticed that there have been no updates for quite some time, and that is because I last few years cannot find enough time to listen to demos, master tracks, make covers e.t.c. 
Sales is close to 0 as well....I'll be glad to sell 20 copies of a release 
In total I have sold 1663 tracks since the launch in 2005.
The idea was never really to generate sales, but when I started it would have been hard to bear the cost of making high resolution formats available free of charge, and also p2p release groups does not release free music, so charging for the downloads was actually a way to be able to get more free downloads.
Nowadays people are more getting in to the habit of trying to find free music online and realise that free doesn't have to mean bad, so if I get some time for updating the site the first thing I would do would be to check with the artists if I can make 320kbps and FLAC free as well.
Regarding if I think the artists get what they deserve, I actually do not see that as my problem since I try to be as clear as possible about what I can offer. I usually describe it as hosting which you might get paid for rather than having to pay for to ensure that I don't give any expectations which I cannot fulfil.
And I also say that I will not have time to make much in the way of promotion, and point out that in terms of getting their music spread traditional releases are more efficient.
But if they have tracks lying around that will not get released anyway, it can be a complement to having the tracks on for example myspace.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 14:17
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
All of a sudden pirating music is possible and sales go back 20% and you say you can't blame it on that???
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Here you have a graph of sales for cassette, vinyl and CD from 1975-2005:
http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/4146447
Tell me if you think the downturn for CD sales look that abnormal?
Every medium have it's lifespan, and CD is reaching the end of it.
Surely downloads plays a part, but it's being exaggerated by labels a lot of the time, but regardless of the cause it's not a 20% decline in sales that is the reason why it's extremely hard to make any money from selling psytrance.
Like I said, the difference between selling 600 and 720 copies is not that great...in either case it's pointless selling CD's from a commercial perspective and IMO it's just not worth creating a fuzz about getting some €150 less (or with those sales figures it's rather a matter of loosing €150 less) for what is months of hard work.
Since you are not getting anywhere close to anything resembling compensation for your effort it IMO makes a lot more sense to let go of any expectations of compensation and think about why you are doing it.
If you are doing it because you enjoy it, forget about sales and focus on the enjoyment.
If you are doing it to get an income, you are in the wrong business. And even if complaining about downloading would actually change the actions of your fans that would not change the fact that there simply is not enough of them to make you earn anything that is more then an insult compared to the effort you made.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
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168
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2984
Posted : May 19, 2009 15:33
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On 2009-05-18 23:32, subconsciousmind wrote:
It makes me sad to read this from you, especially you, really. Try to feel like an artist, please. |
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No need to shoot the messenger; I have not created the music industry crisis. I am here to help! My observations here and elsewhere are intended to add another perspective to the discussion. I do not find it productive to dwell on the fact of low CD sales. This is a business reality. What can be done to bring the psytrance industry into the 21st century? That's my angle... and I'm actually doing something about it.
The way I see it, the creative vitality of the psytrance scene is enriched by the development of non-commercial alternatives such as Ektoplazm. Previously, artists were stuck if the labels did not want to release their work. That isn't the case any more. Even if CD sales were higher there is no guarantee that this would usher in some kind of creative renaissance. Now, this is certainly a matter of personal opinion, but I think psytrance is better off (and more diverse) now than in the year 2000. (Just have a look at my "essential selections" project for both years.)
SCM, I think you should be very impressed that you managed to move even 200 CD singles. This is not a format that has ever done well in the psytrance scene.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 15:34
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On 2009-05-19 14:17, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2009-05-19 13:18, subconsciousmind wrote:
All of a sudden pirating music is possible and sales go back 20% and you say you can't blame it on that???
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Here you have a graph of sales for cassette, vinyl and CD from 1975-2005:
http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/4146447
Tell me if you think the downturn for CD sales look that abnormal?
Every medium have it's lifespan, and CD is reaching the end of it.
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Hmm? This is actually backing up me? Isn't it? Vinyl and cassette has been replaced by something that generated again some income. but cds haven't so far. so thanks for posting this.
there is a loss in income due to pirating that hasn't been compensated yet. At least not in psytrance.
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On 2009-05-19 14:17, Spindrift wrote:
If you are doing it because you enjoy it, forget about sales and focus on the enjoyment.
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Which I do, as I already said.
720 copies sold instead of 600, actually 20% more of all fiin records releases and fiin records would still exist today. but it doesn't. I'd be happy if I'd could pay my webspace and masterings. You say this is too much to ask?
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On 2009-05-19 14:17, Spindrift wrote:
If you are doing it to get an income, you are in the wrong business.
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I think I told you clear enough that I'm not in it for income.
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On 2009-05-19 14:17, Spindrift wrote:
And even if complaining about downloading would actually change the actions of your fans that would not change the fact that there simply is not enough of them to make you earn anything that is more then an insult compared to the effort you made.
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Actually to pick sth. out as a central theme, to talk about things, express ones point of view, express wishes has always helped through mankinds history.
I just find it sad that you actually try to convince me and others that the behaviour of a big part todays music-listeners is correct. I'm not saying the labels and artists do everythin right! I'm just saying that it would be nice if listeners would wake up again and understand that they have to give financial support to music SOMEWHERE, either be it by visiting parties and pay more or donate or download by paying or buy cds, but right now too many are just taking and it destroys a lot of beautiful things.
I admit, that maybe my call for buying CDs is obsolete and I'm happy that people like basilisk try to do something about it. But what I actually want to say deep down is that I feel like listeners do not appreciate the music enough anymore, listeners need to be more willing to spend at least a little money. SOMEWHERE to keep the music alife. Don't we all agree on that? Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : May 19, 2009 15:37
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On 2009-05-19 15:33, Basilisk wrote:
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On 2009-05-18 23:32, subconsciousmind wrote:
It makes me sad to read this from you, especially you, really. Try to feel like an artist, please. |
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No need to shoot the messenger; I have not created the music industry crisis. I am here to help! My observations here and elsewhere are intended to add another perspective to the discussion. I do not find it productive to dwell on the fact of low CD sales. This is a business reality. What can be done to bring the psytrance industry into the 21st century? That's my angle... and I'm actually doing something about it.
The way I see it, the creative vitality of the psytrance scene is enriched by the development of non-commercial alternatives such as Ektoplazm. Previously, artists were stuck if the labels did not want to release their work. That isn't the case any more. Even if CD sales were higher there is no guarantee that this would usher in some kind of creative renaissance. Now, this is certainly a matter of personal opinion, but I think psytrance is better off (and more diverse) now than in the year 2000. (Just have a look at my "essential selections" project for both years.)
SCM, I think you should be very impressed that you managed to move even 200 CD singles. This is not a format that has ever done well in the psytrance scene.
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WORD!
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 19, 2009 16:19
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
Whats the point in that? This is actually backing up me. Vinyl and cassette has been replaced by something that generated again some income. but cds haven't so far. so thanks for posting this.
there is a loss in income due to pirating that hasn't been compensated yet. At least not in psytrance.
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The technology to replace CD's is certainly available, the problem is that unless labels start taking that seriously it will of course not fulfil it's potential.
Only giving customers low-resolution mp3's at the same price as what you pay for a CD is not a serious attempt, and until that happens the blame is not on the consumers for failing to adopt to the suppliers, but it's always the suppliers that have to adopt to the needs of the consumers.
I haven't played a CD for many years, so why would I be interested in buying one?
If I want to get your music in a lossless format as a download for a reasonable price, where do I find it?
And if you look at the music industry as a whole it's actually not doing that bad. Digital sales does generate some income, and money for royalties and live gigs are increasing. And if you factor in that people do not have unlimited spending power, and that people spend a lot more nowadays on computers, internet connection, games and mobile phones it's actually quite impressive that CD sales have not slumped more, even if file-sharing would not exist.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
720 copies sold instead of 600, actually 20% more of all fiin records releases and fiin records would still exist today. but it doesn't. I'd be happy if I'd could pay my webspace and masterings. You say this is too much to ask? |
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Since selling 720 CD's is almost impossible to make hardly any profit from I would be very surprised if that would have resulted in more releases, and I'm not sure if more CD's on the market is what is needed.
If every label released 20% more, that would mean that sales per CD goes down again since the marker gets even more over-saturated.
Regarding webspace, like I already mentioned it doesn't need to cost you anything. And you said yourself you think it's worth paying €60 per track for mastering...where is the problem then? Or you expect people to also think it's worth it because you do?
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I told you clear enough that I'm not in it for income. stay to the point. this is getting us nowhere |
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Notice the "if" in the beginning of the sentence.
But if you do not do it to generate an income I don't understand why you are so concerned by the fact that it doesn't.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
Actually to pick sth. out as a central theme, to talk about things, express ones point of view, express wishes has always helped through mankinds history. |
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I doubt that joining in to the choir of "downloading is bad" will help mankind a lot.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I'm just saying that it would be nice if listeners would wake up again and understand that they have to give financial support to music SOMEWHERE, either be it by visiting parties and pay more or donate or download by paying or buy cds, but right now too many are just taking and it destroys a lot of beautiful things. |
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People do visit parties, and when I get gigs I usually feel I get a lot of appreciation for what I do.
And I don't feel no-one is taking anything, because I do music to give something, and you cannot take what you are given.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I admit, that maybe my call for buying CDs is obsolete and I'm happy that people like basilisk try to do something about it. But what I actually want to say deep down is that I feel like listeners do not appreciate the music enough anymore, listeners need to be more willing to spend at least a little money. SOMEWHERE to keep the music alife. Don't we all agree on that? |
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I certainly do not agree that money keeps music alive, and in my opinion it's rather the opposite.
I do donate occasionally as a way of showing gratitude since I have noticed that it is a popular way of expressing gratitude, but I have seen too many producers loose their inspiration when they start earning a living from psytrance, due to the commercial pressure that comes with that, so I don't have any illusions about CD sales being a way to boost creativity.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : May 19, 2009 17:10
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On 2009-05-19 16:19, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
Whats the point in that? This is actually backing up me. Vinyl and cassette has been replaced by something that generated again some income. but cds haven't so far. so thanks for posting this.
there is a loss in income due to pirating that hasn't been compensated yet. At least not in psytrance.
|
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The technology to replace CD's is certainly available, the problem is that unless labels start taking that seriously it will of course not fulfil it's potential.
Only giving customers low-resolution mp3's at the same price as what you pay for a CD is not a serious attempt, and until that happens the blame is not on the consumers for failing to adopt to the suppliers, but it's always the suppliers that have to adopt to the needs of the consumers.
I haven't played a CD for many years, so why would I be interested in buying one?
If I want to get your music in a lossless format as a download for a reasonable price, where do I find it?
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You want it lossless, but I doubt that you are the majority. Or do you think just because you do expect it everybody has to?
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
720 copies sold instead of 600, actually 20% more of all fiin records releases and fiin records would still exist today. but it doesn't. I'd be happy if I'd could pay my webspace and masterings. You say this is too much to ask? |
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Since selling 720 CD's is almost impossible to make hardly any profit from I would be very surprised if that would have resulted in more releases, and I'm not sure if more CD's on the market is what is needed.
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Fiin Records would never have wanted to make profit, just to settle the costs. 20% would have elimated all expenses and we would have privately invested again. But money has been lost the way it was.
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Regarding webspace, like I already mentioned it doesn't need to cost you anything.
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not true at the amount of webspace and traffic I have and need.
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And you said yourself you think it's worth paying €60 per track for mastering...where is the problem then? Or you expect people to also think it's worth it because you do?
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Yes, people do appreciate well mastered music, but they don't want to pay for it.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I told you clear enough that I'm not in it for income. stay to the point. this is getting us nowhere |
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Notice the "if" in the beginning of the sentence.
But if you do not do it to generate an income I don't understand why you are so concerned by the fact that it doesn't.
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Because I don't want income, but I also don't want to pay for giving my music to others.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I'm just saying that it would be nice if listeners would wake up again and understand that they have to give financial support to music SOMEWHERE, either be it by visiting parties and pay more or donate or download by paying or buy cds, but right now too many are just taking and it destroys a lot of beautiful things. |
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People do visit parties, and when I get gigs I usually feel I get a lot of appreciation for what I do.
And I don't feel no-one is taking anything, because I do music to give something, and you cannot take what you are given.
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Nicely put I must say. I don't want anything for my music. I don't want anything for my art. But I want something for the technical, material effort which I have to make. I dont want INCOME but I also don't want to make a loss. I think thats humble enough.
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On 2009-05-18 15:34, subconsciousmind wrote:
I admit, that maybe my call for buying CDs is obsolete and I'm happy that people like basilisk try to do something about it. But what I actually want to say deep down is that I feel like listeners do not appreciate the music enough anymore, listeners need to be more willing to spend at least a little money. SOMEWHERE to keep the music alife. Don't we all agree on that? |
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I certainly do not agree that money keeps music alive, and in my opinion it's rather the opposite.
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Again, well put and true in many ways. But money helps to run websites and pay for technical stuff and a lot of other things that go with creating music. Its not black and white, money is not only bad. Money is a form of energy which is needed for many things in the past and modern ways of musiccreation. So money helps to keep the music a life. If there is no money, nobody is able to get to the music anymore.
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I do donate occasionally as a way of showing gratitude since I have noticed that it is a popular way of expressing gratitude, but I have seen too many producers loose their inspiration when they start earning a living from psytrance, due to the commercial pressure that comes with that, so I don't have any illusions about CD sales being a way to boost creativity.
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Absolutely, I have seen that happening too, many times and thats why I do not even try to live from my music and never will try to do that.
But its not black and white, much money might become a problem, but a little money is neccessairy because we simply live in a physical world after all.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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